[RJ2112]

I sincerely hope I am wrong. the drive has always been to build one bike that can be sold around the world, and only modify that single design the absolute minimum to allow the maximum sales. All of this emissions stuff has come about from California, and now Europe following in the footsteps.

When the EU was formed, one of the goals was to reduce red tape and import restrictions BETWEEN THE MEMBER NATIONS. The entirety of Europe is a large market, probably on par with the US/Canada market in volume for motorcycles. Maybe less, but not by a whole lot. If the EU sets a requirement, it is economic suicide for a manufacturer to build something that cannot be sold there. The EU can (and does) limit competition from outside vendors by creation of limits which favor local manufacture. The term is barrier to (market) entry.

This is not unique to Europe, Asia does very similar things. Many, many countries require local content in items sold in their market, as a way to keep their money in their market.

Building old slow heavy and overpriced bikes in a captive market makes for uncompetitive machines. When Honda started selling reliable low priced fun bikes, it was a severe kick in the market to the old guard. The 600 cc sport bike owes it's existence to HD getting Regan to put a tariff on imports of motorcycles, 750cc and larger. If it hadn't been for that tariff, HD would have died/gone bankrupt, in the same way that Triumph, Norton, BSA and many others had gone under.

The big four Japanese responded by decreasing the size of the engines in their 750 bikes to 700 cc, and hunted for a way to make a bike that was exciting on a smaller lighter form. Selling bikes that are just as heavy and just as expensive with 80% of the power, is not something the market was really interested in. You could easily buy a Harley, if that was what you were after....

The Japanese home market had a lot of 400cc inline 4 sport bikes. When you bore one of those out to the maximum it can take, it comes in at roughly 600 cc. Sales exploded, and the vicious cycle of newer and better took off resulting in replacement models every couple of years throughout the '90s. Ever higher compression, and RPM limits meant those displacements could produce almost as much power as a 750 within a very few years.

Market driven product development, how ever stupid the decisions of the legislators involved is. I guarantee that if there were any way for the big players in motorcycles to avoid developing electric bikes, they would do so in a heartbeat.

 

[Sanctuary]

The ZX14 will stick around longer as well. I'd expect the lighter weight classes to go to turbos/superchargers to try and make up the power and still have a light weight with a twin or triple format. Pricing will get higher as the bikes get more complex, less units are built, and the company has to make more off each unit sold to cover expenses.

Don't count on it. It's been rumoured to disappear from various markets.

Kawasaki to discontinue ZX-14R / ZZR1400 after 14 years

It came to life in 2006, and after 14 years of thrilling motorcycle enthusiasts, Kawasaki is all set to discontinue the ZX-14R / ZZR1400 motorcycle. The Japanese manufacturer has revealed that the bike will be discontinued in 2020, after the Euro-5 emission norms come in to play and even the...

shifting-gears.com

And it appears in those markets where it is offered it is only in limited numbers. Which means Kawasaki is about to sunset the platform. I highly doubt they'd update it in response to Suzuki. Especially when they have the H2SX platform.

 

[tps3443]

I just heard a horrible rumor from a friend that the ZX-6R is going the same way as Yamaha’s YZF-R6, ie, being discontinued soon. I hope this is false.

Any of you heard about this?

Cheers
jcmuirkw

You can buy a 2023 ZX6R in the US right now. Plenty of dealers have them in-stock. I have seen them.

The R6 was discontinued for good reason by Yamaha. First of all, it was like $2,500 more than a base ZX6R and probably was not selling very well. Now, I think with the new pricing since the introduction of the redesigned 2019+ ZX6R they are extremely competitive. Whether it’s being raced Or not. This model is thriving on the streets, it is one of the most popular motorcycles around right now. And for good reason too.

It has a quick shifter, it’s base price was like $9,999, and it weights 10lbs more than an R6 but also produces 10 more HP.

I feel like people are buying these things left and right honestly.

If you want a 2023 ZX6R go buy one from down the street, not in another country….

 

[CaliChris636]

The ZX14 will stick around longer as well. I'd expect the lighter weight classes to go to turbos/superchargers to try and make up the power and still have a light weight with a twin or triple format. Pricing will get higher as the bikes get more complex, less units are built, and the company has to make more off each unit sold to cover expenses.

I have been giving this inevitable bad news some more thought.. and read something about the World Superbike Championship requiring the bikes in there to pass “homologation”. Selling a certain # of the bikes in the market in order to be eligible to race in the events?

So does this mean the zx10r will remain safe for a while until Kawasaki goes full electric? Since Kawasaki is a big player in WSBK, also with Jonathan Rhea doing so well on the zx10r. If the zx6r is gone and used ones are overpriced, some years later I’d probably get a zx10r then. Or R9, or z900…gonna miss you my sweet 636. Hoping to keep it and acquire the second bike though later on.

 

[RJ2112]

Homologation specials are typically much closer to ‘racers with lights’ than the average mass production street bike. I think at least 200 have to be sold in the market to be raced in?

There’s a premium for that because the volume sold is considerably lower, some number of better parts already installed, etc. Usually not a fully built racing engine, so it’s not the ultimate version of what that bike could be.

If the only street version of a bike is one of those, it’s not getting any serious new development.

 

[CaliChris636]

Homologation specials are typically much closer to ‘racers with lights’ than the average mass production street bike. I think at least 200 have to be sold in the market to be raced in?

There’s a premium for that because the volume sold is considerably lower, some number of better parts already installed, etc. Usually not a fully built racing engine, so it’s not the ultimate version of what that bike could be.

If the only street version of a bike is one of those, it’s not getting any serious new development.

Maybe Kawasaki will come out with a zx9r then like the rumored yamaha r9 is coming out. One can hope

 

[mmattockx]

Maybe Kawasaki will come out with a zx9r then like the rumored yamaha r9 is coming out. One can hope

With what engine, though? The reason the R9 makes sense for Yamaha is they already have all the engine development and emissions work done for the Tracer and MT09, so they can just wrap a new chassis around that engine/emissions package and have a low effort street sport bike for sale.


Mark

 

[CaliChris636]

With what engine, though? The reason the R9 makes sense for Yamaha is they already have all the work done for the Tracer, so they can just wrap a new chassis around that engine/emissions package and have a low effort street sport bike for sale.


Mark

With the Z900 engine, it’s also the Fz-09/MT-09’s direct competitor 🤞

 

[mmattockx]

With the Z900 engine, it’s also the Fz-09/MT-09’s direct competitor 🤞

Yeah, I thought of the Z900 engine after I posted. I have no experience with them, but if it's a decent engine and not too bulky or heavy then a ZX9R would make some sense. I would love to see a class of sport bikes like that come out. I don't want or care about having the 200hp of the big liter bikes and the midsize twins leave me cold, so a less firebreathing 900 tuned for torque in a great chassis would be a great option.


Mark

 

[Sanctuary]

I've got the Z900RS and previously owned a Z900. Both engines are tuned for street use with high torque and low HP (relative to 200HP monsters). You're talking ~100HP on the Z900RS. I don't see Kawasaki ever doing a ZX9R - personally I'd love a new GPZ900. Same idea really, but Kawasaki isn't going to spend a bunch on tooling after having two models using this motor. The retro bikes are selling, Sports bikes are not.

 

[CaliChris636]

Yeah, I thought of the Z900 engine after I posted. I have no experience with them, but if it's a decent engine and not too bulky or heavy then a ZX9R would make some sense. I would love to see a class of sport bikes like that come out. I don't want or care about having the 200hp of the big liter bikes and the midsize twins leave me cold, so a less firebreathing 900 tuned for torque in a great chassis would be a great option.


Mark

I just found out that Honda may be working on a CBR 750RR that could be replacing the CBR600rr due to emissions. I can definitely be ok with that. And if Kawasaki has to go the same route with the zx6r to a 750cc, I see that as a small victory for the inline 4 engines.