[RJ2112]

^^^ It’s a physics problem that the mechanical engineering team at Kawasaki has spent decades refining the solution to. The legal staff weighs in as well…. Can’t lose the company through complicit bad engineering.

If the geometry is close to the stock settings and the suspension + frame and structure is in good condition…… a tank slapper during street riding is so unlikely that a steering damper is effectively useless (in the sense that it has no functionality).

Given the OEM installation on my ‘09 (& continued through’12) how come Kawasaki REMOVED the damper with the ‘13+ models when they make MORE power?

 

[SCNinja636]

^^^ It’s a physics problem that the mechanical engineering team at Kawasaki has spent decades refining the solution to. The legal staff weighs in as well…. Can’t lose the company through complicit bad engineering.

If the geometry is close to the stock settings and the suspension + frame and structure is in good condition…… a tank slapper during street riding is so unlikely that a steering damper is effectively useless (in the sense that it has no functionality).

Given the OEM installation on my ‘09 (& continued through’12) how come Kawasaki REMOVED the damper with the ‘13+ models when they make MORE power?

Actually it's more than a physics problem, it's a shit happens problem that is outside of physics and geometry, etc. I've been riding street bikes since 86 and have encountered all kinds of crazy shit on the roads.

Saying there is no need for a damper because a tank slapper will never occur is a very limited and incorrect view. I understand and appreciate your detailed response and you are correct with your statement but that is only a single causality. Personally I have never had a tank slapper and that is not the primary reason I have the damper. I've watched vids of tank slappers and that is some terrifying shit so I'm glad I won't be experiencing a tank slapper thanks to my 70 dollar correctly installed Chinese damper .

I hit debris on the road and the wheel jerked to the right throwing me off like a raging bull. I was flying thru the air looking down at the yellow lines and turned my head to see if I had a date with the front of a Lincoln. Thankfully nothing was coming and while bloody and bruised I was able to get back on the bike and ride it home. That shit gets burned into your mind and never leaves. I can see that event like it was yesterday, it was 30 years ago. Some guy who saw the crash yelled, "you're fucking nuts" when I got back on the bike and rode away.

Here is a perfect example of what I experienced while riding and why I will not ride without a steering damper. The purpose of the damper is to stop a violent steering event from throwing you off the bike and it is absolutely not limited to a tank slapper. In the video below the steering damper probably saved his ass.

I'm wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Had said damper. Speaking from experience here. It is junk. I can post pics if you like.

I would never have another piece of junk Chinese thing on my bike which pertains to safety (e.g. damper, brakes, rear-sets) - the metal they use is just not up to scratch. But like I said YMMV. Just hope it doesn't fail at ridiculous speeds some people seem to do on the street...

I would be interested in seeing pics and your experience of what failed. I've watched videos from others that installed the unit incorrectly and therefore the bolts came loose. The most common mistake is the center pivot bolt comes loose while steering because the washer or oring was installed in that location. The second most common problem is leaking oil because the end caps were not checked and tightened.

I've made is very clear in my instructions how to install it and what to check. If you install something incorrectly that doesn't make it junk. In your original response you made an incorrect statement about the mounting being different than the Ohlins so I'm curious how you made such a blatant mistake in your description of the FXCNC vs. the Ohlins if the hardware is identical?

"the mounting hardware is a pain in the arse if you're wanting to get the tank off to do work. I swapped mine out for the Ohlins "

You also mentioned bolts coming loose so it sounds like you made the most common installation mistake of installing the washer or oring with the pivot bolt.

 

[RJ2112]

A cattle guard is very similar to a manhole cover, railroad tracks, built up sand in a lane, ice…… one big knock should still not set off a tank slapper unless the suspension is compromised and the front wheel is skipping along the pavement. Rake and trail will center the wheel 99.99999% of the time.

I too started riding street bikes routinely in’85, after riding dirt/trail bikes since ‘71. It’s fair to say conditions that are likely to set off a tank slapper should be much greater off road…. Rougher surfaces, reduced traction, lots more jumping and wheelies.

I don’t recall ever seeing a motocross bike fitted with a steering damper. Or a trail bike, or a dual sport.

Almost all these types of bike use very similar rake and trail to SS bikes, and have wider spacing on their steering locks. If anything, far more prone to that ‘slapper’. I may be mistaken, I have not seen routine use of a damper on any of these.

 

[Sanctuary]

No mistakes made in install. The metal is not up to scratch. Do your homework. Or wait till it breaks.

 

[SCNinja636]

A cattle guard is very similar to a manhole cover, railroad tracks, built up sand in a lane, ice…… one big knock should still not set off a tank slapper unless the suspension is compromised and the front wheel is skipping along the pavement. Rake and trail will center the wheel 99.99999% of the time.

I too started riding street bikes routinely in’85, after riding dirt/trail bikes since ‘71. It’s fair to say conditions that are likely to set off a tank slapper should be much greater off road…. Rougher surfaces, reduced traction, lots more jumping and wheelies.

I don’t recall ever seeing a motocross bike fitted with a steering damper. Or a trail bike, or a dual sport.

Almost all these types of bike use very similar rake and trail to SS bikes, and have wider spacing on their steering locks. If anything, far more prone to that ‘slapper’. I may be mistaken, I have not seen routine use of a damper on any of these.

We must be around the same age since I started riding mini bikes around 72/73 at 5 years old. Rode dirt bikes and 3 wheelers around the Appalachian Ramapo mountains my entire life. Didn't have any dampers that's for certain. I've had the steering ripped out of my hands a few times in the mountains because of rocks, ditches, etc.

There are is a fuck ton of shit on the roads that will cause the steering to become unstable but hey, good for you that you have such an outstanding setup that you can withstand any imperfection or oh shit moment.

IMO and from my brief experience as Superman, It's better to have a damper and never use it than not have a damper and wish you had one while flying thru the air.

Here is a quick video from MC garage with some basic damper info for new riders.

No mistakes made in install. The metal is not up to scratch. Do your homework. Or wait till it breaks.

You must be a comedian on the side. You obviously made a few mistakes because you said the hardware was different when it is actually identical, and the bolt would come loose which only happens when you install it incorrectly.

I obviously did my research and figured out what works and what doesn't work. So if you want to know how to install it correctly read my instructions. You telling me to do research is hysterical.

Chinese metal is not up to par with what? A steering damper?

 

[RJ2112]

I’m roughly 5 years older— born in’61.

I haven’t owned a motorcycle that I haven’t crashed, and am man enough to admit that. An oh shit moment is the result of bad planning, or ignorance of the actual conditions someone is riding in.

None of my (motorcycle) crashes have involved another vehicle, and can be traced back to a bad decision on my part…. and all will include a statement to the effect of too fast for conditions.

Perhaps the biggest difference in our approach is that I think it’s extremely important to ride within your sight line. If you can’t stop in the space you can see, you’re over driving the sight line.

just my two cents. That’s cost me broken ribs, a separated shoulder, and many individual road rashes figuring it out.

 

[riverszzr]

Bangs head against wall..............

Someone is obviously so obsessed with his chineseum damper that despite others experiences and even his own, he is blinded by the fact he demands a damper is the saving grace of god for everyone and damn you to hell if you don't agree.....

Well we know who supports chineseum trash and who doesn't and we also all know who buys into hype and advertising and who doesn't.......

Bad set up of bike and bad riding practices are what cause tank slappers and the damper only masks those problems for the people who refuse to fix the root problem---usually the nutcase behind the bars

 

[Sanctuary]

Can't wait for the post when he totals the bike as it wouldn't allow him to turn into a corner...

Face it, it's a piece of shit. You get what you paid for. And the Ohlins the 2009-2012 bikes were equipped with is not valved sufficiently to have any effect (basically to prevent users from turning it way up and then not being able to turn on a street bike) so you need to get it redone by Ohlins. I got mine from Hardracing and have never looked back. Especially down the back-straight of Manfeild.

One thing I do wish is that the bike was equipped with something like what the modern ZX10R has - as in an electronic damper that detects oscillation. Maybe if Kawasaki do a new Gen ZX6R they might consider it? Who knows...probably not as the ZX6R tends to be built to a budget.

 

[riverszzr]

Can't wait for the post when he totals the bike as it wouldn't allow him to turn into a corner...

Face it, it's a piece of shit. You get what you paid for. And the Ohlins the 2009-2012 bikes were equipped with is not valved sufficiently to have any effect (basically to prevent users from turning it way up and then not being able to turn on a street bike) so you need to get it redone by Ohlins. I got mine from Hardracing and have never looked back. Especially down the back-straight of Manfeild.

One thing I do wish is that the bike was equipped with something like what the modern ZX10R has - as in an electronic damper that detects oscillation. Maybe if Kawasaki do a new Gen ZX6R they might consider it? Who knows...probably not as the ZX6R tends to be built to a budget.

He would never admit that his chineseum damper was at fault or had a problem at this point, he walked off that cliff of blindly promoting and defending them and their quality and need to have one---no coming back from that kind of stupid....

 

[Scorpi0]

Pretty sure this is Chinese, but the reviews are all pretty good. Some Chinese companies are stepping up their quality.

Amazon.com: Krace CNC Motorcycle Steering Damper Stabilizer Linear Fit Yamaha YZF R1／R3／R6／R15／R125／R25 FZ1 FZ8 FZ09 MT09 GSXR 600 750 1000 GSX1300R CBR600RR 1000RR CB400 CB1000 ZX6R ZX14R : Automotive

Buy Krace CNC Motorcycle Steering Damper Stabilizer Linear Fit Yamaha YZF R1／R3／R6／R15／R125／R25 FZ1 FZ8 FZ09 MT09 GSXR 600 750 1000 GSX1300R CBR600RR 1000RR CB400 CB1000 ZX6R ZX14R: Damper & Steering Stabilizers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[riverszzr]

Pretty sure this is Chinese, but the reviews are all pretty good. Some Chinese companies are stepping up their quality.

Amazon.com: Krace CNC Motorcycle Steering Damper Stabilizer Linear Fit Yamaha YZF R1／R3／R6／R15／R125／R25 FZ1 FZ8 FZ09 MT09 GSXR 600 750 1000 GSX1300R CBR600RR 1000RR CB400 CB1000 ZX6R ZX14R : Automotive

Buy Krace CNC Motorcycle Steering Damper Stabilizer Linear Fit Yamaha YZF R1／R3／R6／R15／R125／R25 FZ1 FZ8 FZ09 MT09 GSXR 600 750 1000 GSX1300R CBR600RR 1000RR CB400 CB1000 ZX6R ZX14R: Damper & Steering Stabilizers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

I am willing to bet more than half of all reviews on amazon are not from actual people who purchased

I am willing to bet that the majority of the rest of the reviews are from dolts too ignorant and stupid to recognize good build quality from crap built quality unless it pukes all the oil out at them instantly........

So that leaves me very skeptical of any claims from anyone I do not personally know and can verify they know anything about anything motorcycling or otherwise.......

I have seen far too many ignorant stupid fucks in 40 years of wrenching on bikes and dealing with ignorant uneducated customers to believe even 5% of them know anything at all about what is good and what isn't........ christ half of them believe their bikes run great as they arrive........ or that cords showing on the tire is a sign of; getting all your monies worth, not dangerous, proves they know how to ride etc etc etc.......

The world is full of far too many absolute ignorant stupid fucks who are too fucking lazy or too fucking stupid to actually know they are that fucking ignorant and stupid

 

[SCNinja636]

exactly........ I have never saw any need on any bike to HAVE TO HAVE nor to PROMOTE as some safety device a steering damper and in well over a million miles of riding I have never once had any of the 50+ bikes I have owned go into a tank slapper for any reason under any conditions

When the suspension is set up correctly and the bike has not been overloaded or basterdized.... there is zero need for a damper!

What a load of crap. Promoting a properly setup suspension as the solution for every possible scenario is just absolutel nonse.

Saying there is zero need for a damper because you've never needed one shows your ignorance.

The video I posted clearly demonstrates that there are scenarios where a damper will save your ass, and the rider in the video stated it was the second time the damper saved his ass so not only are you wrong, you are promoting a false sense of security.

I've had this damper for close to a year and 5k plus miles and it's working perfectly. I haven't needed it and hopefully never will but only an ignorant fuck would suggest it will never be needed because of a properly setup suspension.

 

[riverszzr]

What a load of crap. Promoting a properly setup suspension as the solution for every possible scenario is just absolutel nonse.

Saying there is zero need for a damper because you've never needed one shows your ignorance.

The video I posted clearly demonstrates that there are scenarios where a damper will save your ass, and the rider in the video stated it was the second time the damper saved his ass so not only are you wrong, you are promoting a false sense of security.

I've had this damper for close to a year and 5k plus miles and it's working perfectly. I haven't needed it and hopefully never will but only an ignorant fuck would suggest it will never be needed because of a properly setup suspension.
View attachment 111024

You sure are showing off your total ignorance and stupidity in this thread..........

You have thoroughly lost all credibility in every issue and should stop digging and just lay down and pull all the dirt in the hole on top of yourself at this point.................


I bring you every post in this thread as my logic to my response......................

 

[SCNinja636]

You sure are showing off your total ignorance and stupidity in this thread..........

You have thoroughly lost all credibility in every issue and should stop digging and just lay down and pull all the dirt in the hole on top of yourself at this point.................


I bring you every post in this thread as my logic to my response......................

I think you need to check your oil, you're a couple of quarts low there Ace.

 

[SCNinja636]

I just passed 8k miles and the FXCNC damper has worked flawlessly without any leaks or screws coming loose while riding. Since I purchased this unit 1 year ago the price has gone up from 70.00 USD to 93.00 USD but it's still a good option for anyone who wants the security of a steering damper but does not want to pay 600-700 USD.

 

[RJ2112]

The problem with arguments about steering dampers centers on the need to prove or disprove a negative. Very nearly as bad as a discussion about engine oil, or coolant. Purely subjective, with no quality evidence to support any claims concerning performance. A sample set of 1 does nothing to answer a statistical question.

8K miles with a cheap damper and no slappers/crashes, my 52K miles with an effectively useless Ohlins OEM damper and no tank slappers, have exactly the same value in terms of this discussion.

Every ZX6R built from 2013-present that is sold WITHOUT a damper at all..... I would expect there are some millions of miles ridden across every continent and every imaginable road condition...... if a damper was as critical as you suggest, it is reasonable to expect that Kawasaki would have issued a recall, or faced a substantial number of lawsuits claiming negligence. So far as I am aware, no such action has taken place. I don't know the production numbers for ZX6 each year. I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least 60K bikes per year. Over the last 10 years, that will almost certainly exceed half a million bikes.

Can the suspension of a bike be adjusted to the point where slappers are more easily set off? Of course they can. The ID10T adjustment is always possible. Engineering can only go so far to protect people from themselves. If the front of the bike is so stiff that you can easily do a stoppie, odds are very good that the tire will not remain on the pavement consistently. It will bounce off. Bent or misaligned fork tubes that have more stiction than a properly adjusted setup will contribute as well. Worn out tires, low air pressure, bad wheel bearings, bad steering neck bearings, bent rims....... the number of times you'll find an OEM configuration which experiences any sort of slapper, will be dwarfed by the number that involve someone d*cking around with their bike and getting it wrong. Physics, thou art a bitch.

Of course, YMMV.

./ 0.02

 

[SCNinja636]

The problem with arguments about steering dampers centers on the need to prove or disprove a negative. Very nearly as bad as a discussion about engine oil, or coolant. Purely subjective, with no quality evidence to support any claims concerning performance. A sample set of 1 does nothing to answer a statistical question.

8K miles with a cheap damper and no slappers/crashes, my 52K miles with an effectively useless Ohlins OEM damper and no tank slappers, have exactly the same value in terms of this discussion.

Every ZX6R built from 2013-present that is sold WITHOUT a damper at all..... I would expect there are some millions of miles ridden across every continent and every imaginable road condition...... if a damper was as critical as you suggest, it is reasonable to expect that Kawasaki would have issued a recall, or faced a substantial number of lawsuits claiming negligence. So far as I am aware, no such action has taken place. I don't know the production numbers for ZX6 each year. I'd be shocked if it wasn't at least 60K bikes per year. Over the last 10 years, that will almost certainly exceed half a million bikes.

Can the suspension of a bike be adjusted to the point where slappers are more easily set off? Of course they can. The ID10T adjustment is always possible. Engineering can only go so far to protect people from themselves. If the front of the bike is so stiff that you can easily do a stoppie, odds are very good that the tire will not remain on the pavement consistently. It will bounce off. Bent or misaligned fork tubes that have more stiction than a properly adjusted setup will contribute as well. Worn out tires, low air pressure, bad wheel bearings, bad steering neck bearings, bent rims....... the number of times you'll find an OEM configuration which experiences any sort of slapper, will be dwarfed by the number that involve someone d*cking around with their bike and getting it wrong. Physics, thou art a bitch.

Of course, YMMV.

./ 0.02

Steering dampers will help protect against any abnormal steering event that is outside the control of geometry or physics, why you can't understand that a mystery. You want to focus on tank slappers but that is missing the point entirely. You have obviously never encountered an object in the road that has caused the front wheel or steering to become unstable, good for you. I have and I went over the top as a result so I have actual experience behind me. I believe you stated that cattle grates, manhole covers, or other imperfections are all similar which is false. Each and every imperfection encountered has many variables that are unique and can have unexpected results.

I posted a video of a rider who filmed a violent steering event similar to what happened to me and he stated it was the second time the steering damper likely saved him from a crash.

Here is the video that clearly shows how a steering damper can help avoid a crash when an unexpected object is encountered while riding. This is nearly identical to my event but since I had no damper I high sided.

A steering damper can save your life so comparing them to oil and coolant discussions is nonsense, pointless and shows your lack of understanding on the subject.

 

[RJ2112]

I’ve hit things like that which is displayed in that video more times than I can count. Manhole covers railroad tracks, painted lines in wet conditions, road debris, pot holes, even ladders, rocks, landscaping timbers ….. not one tank slapper.

Leaned over, upright, under hard acceleration, hard braking….. no tank slappers.

What was shown in that video is a single head shake. I’ve experienced this multiple times, probably on the order of 1/10th the number of times I’ve had to hit road debris….. can that turn into a slapper? Of course it could. (See discussion concerning afu set up)

Does that video show the damper ‘saving’ the rider? IMHO, it does not.

Just another day at the office. One shake, move along.

 

[SCNinja636]

I’ve hit things like that which is displayed in that video more times than I can count. Manhole covers railroad tracks, painted lines in wet conditions, road debris, pot holes, even ladders, rocks, landscaping timbers ….. not one tank slapper.

Leaned over, upright, under hard acceleration, hard braking….. no tank slappers.

What was shown in that video is a single head shake. I’ve experienced this multiple times, probably on the order of 1/10th the number of times I’ve had to hit road debris….. can that turn into a slapper? Of course it could. (See discussion concerning afu set up)

Does that video show the damper ‘saving’ the rider? IMHO, it does not.

Just another day at the office. One shake, move along.

Look professor Geo, the video clearly shows the rider stating that he feels the steering damper saved him, and mentioned that is the second time the steering damper saved him. I agree with the rider after watching the video which is why I posted it and since I experienced a similar event and went over the top as a result of not having a steering damper.

Tank slapper, low tire pressure, hitting an object, etc. can all result is the steering becoming unstable and having a steering damper will help mitigate the risk. Telling someone in a hospital bed or a widow that her husband didn't have good geometry isn't going to go over to well Ace.

Stating that you've hit all kinds of stuff and never had a problem shows you lack a fundamental understand of how life actually works. I've crossed the street a thousand times and never been hit by a car, so what the fuck does my experience have to do with the guy who got killed while walking across the street?

 

[RJ2112]

Look professor Geo, the video clearly shows the rider stating that he feels the steering damper saved him, and mentioned that is the second time the steering damper saved him. I agree with the rider after watching the video which is why I posted it and since I experienced a similar event and went over the top as a result of not having a steering damper.

Tank slapper, low tire pressure, hitting an object, etc. can all result is the steering becoming unstable and having a steering damper will help mitigate the risk. Telling someone in a hospital bed or a widow that her husband didn't have good geometry isn't going to go over to well Ace.

Stating that you've hit all kinds of stuff and never had a problem shows you lack a fundamental understand of how life actually works. I've crossed the street a thousand times and never been hit by a car, so what the fuck does my experience have to do with the guy who got killed while walking across the street?

You may notice (or not—your choice) the you’re arguing exactly the points I stated at the start of this conversation. Not enough empirical data to substantiate your/my position. As you’re now stooping to vulgar language, I have to think you feel like you’re losing an argument I personally couldn’t give one f*ck less about.

I will comment on one more thing, then end any further discussion with you on this topic.

A tank slapper will not cause a high side crash. High sides happen because the rear will was skidding at an angle to the direction of travel of the bike, and suddenly regains traction. That rotates the chassis through the vertical and launches the rider airborne. Rear wheel skid, NOT front wheel oscillation.

If you don’t understand that, I suggest you do some research. Better yet, take some formal training from people who actually do understand this. The biggest danger a rider faces comes from the 7lbs of fat between their ears.