Starting Problems zx6r 636 B1H 2004 - ZX6R Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Angry Starting Problems zx6r 636 B1H 2004

A while ago my bike began having starting problems, there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to the fault.

It is intermitent and seems to be getting worse. It is very annoying as I use the bike daily, and have done throughout the winter. The bike has covered 17,700 miles. I have continually maintained the bike and it is in good order. I have regularly serviced it and am an professional engineer with some knowledge of electrics.

The problem occurs when I try to start the bike, once going it seems to run fine throughout the rev band.

The symptoms; I turn on the ignition switch and all lights up, the subthrottle sets and the meter lights all appear normal, when I hit the starter button the front light is stopped from illuminating and the engine turns over but it just doesnt fire. It can happen if the engine is hot/ cold in the wet or dry. If I then rock the bike to and fro and apply brakes pull the clutch lever in shake it about - always with a turn off and on of the ignition switch it will eventually fire up. It can take up to 10 minutes and so far I have not been left stranded (thankfully!). The dealer mode (2) indicated two problems before I started messing about with it, namely 13 & 14 (air inlet temp sensor and water temp sensor) both of which wouldnt if failed cause it not to start as the ECU would take a default value.

I have spent a couple of days testing ECU grounds, power supply and resistances of sensors, main ECU relay, pump relay etc.

Today I removed the fairing, tail fairing, petrol tank and airbox. A couple of the connectors did have some light corrosion (greening) which I cleaned with electical contact cleaner and sprayed with silicon. I was hopeful but put it all back together and still no joy. However the EFI code (dealer code 13) again gave inlet temp sensor problem

Has anyone got any suggestions or experienced similar problems?
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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Having some experience with dirt bikes, trouble starting = valve clearances need checking/adjusting.
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 04:35 PM
 
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maybe time for a trade in i had a cbr 900 with 18,000 miles it was one thing after another
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 05:13 PM
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it is 99.9% that its the wire connection somewhere!! Pull the gas tank and see if all the wires that go from the handle bars are plugged in. If that doesnt work, then, I think, you need a new ignition switch.
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 08:41 PM
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I would start my diagnosis by looking for spark. the fuel system sounds like it's fine, pull the tank and air box, pop one of the coils out and put an old plug in there and ground it to the head (somewhere AWAY from any possible fuel vapors!) give the starter button a bump and see if the plug fires.

On the other hand, the intake air temp sensor is going to help the computer calculate the required air/fuel ratio, so it COULD be a fuel problem, but not to the point that it's not going to start. When it senses that the voltage readings are out of the range it expects to see, it ignores the sensor and works with a pre-determined value that "should" work.

Have you actually checked that sensor? If it's throwing a code for it, repeatedly, then there's something up with the sensor/wiring. dig through your manual, find some specs for reference voltage and resistance across the sensor, and make sure it's getting/giving what it should. The ecu is either not getting the right information, or not using it properly. The fact that you have a code is a pretty big help, run with it.
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-08-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mityaz View Post
it is 99.9% that its the wire connection somewhere!! Pull the gas tank and see if all the wires that go from the handle bars are plugged in. If that doesnt work, then, I think, you need a new ignition switch.
Crank but no start means the ignition switch is good
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for all the replies;

Dirtymonkey: valve clearances checked 500 miles ago and all fine.

Marleybones: Have done about 10,000 miles this last year (incl 21 laps of the N'Ring!), I did 53,000 on a ZX7R before p/ex to this one. I will not be changing for sometime - but thanks for the advice - I will sort it out eventually, just want to fix befor trackday at Castle Combe on 27th!.

Mityaz: I have had fuel tank and airbox off and cleaned connectors, I will continue to wiggle stuff and try to locate proble before investing in ignition switch as £191 + vat!!!

Zoomsplt: I like the idea of looking for a spark, so i will be checking that today. Thanks for reassurance that ignition switch is good. I have checked resitance of AIT sensor = 2.38 ohms at ambient and 0.53 ohms in dish of off-boiling water, so seems ok. Voltage at ECU is 2.63 volts (slightly over spec - 2.25v-2.5v) so could that cause issue?? I will be looking at conituity and continuing to check all connectors as there was some evidence of minor corrosion (greening) on a couple of them.

Again thanks for all responses...

Jon
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 03:54 AM Thread Starter
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Just checked for spark using old spark plug in HT lead on top of block... No sign at all. Will now look at manual for advice....
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 04:00 AM
 
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I've had a similar thing happen on my bike.. Just letting you know the cause although I doubt it's your particular issue
one of the cells in the battery died so it was a random keep trying til it started thing
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for that, the battery indicates 12.7 volts, so as you say, probably not the issue. I have to say though that I have had a fair number of problems where the battery was at fault; it didnt always make sense what was causing the problem either.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomSplat View Post
Crank but no start means the ignition switch is good
the ignition switch also turns on the fuel pump, plug coils, and other goodies, so the ignition switch is vital.


AND if the bike was consistently not starting, then it would mean something wrong with the sensors and shit. But his bike starts after a shake (does the sensor decide to change its resistance when being shaken? i dont think so). it is a lose wire, brother ( assuming the battery is good of course)
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Well done Mityaz, you deserve a Blue Peter badge.

Yippee!! have located the problem. An ignition switch wire that had snapped at the soldered joint under the switch. Sometimes touching causing a circuit. All I need to do know is work out how to take the switch apart as soldering it in situe is not being very successful as its upside down and difficult to gain easy access. Does anyone know how to take the switch apart as the manual doesnt give directions..

I am really happy to have got to the bottom of this...
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-09-2009, 10:44 PM
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glad to hear that you found the problem. as for taking apart the switches, i cant tell you much except to improvise!! try to get a thin-tipped soldering pencil and do it ( take the switch of first). thats my only reasonable advice.
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