Question on vortex lowering links - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Question on vortex lowering links

Hello guys quick question i'm short like 5.5 and i tippy toe my bike at lights sometimes hurts my toes after 2 hours of riding. I bought vortex lowering links and a kickstand. I want to lower the rear 2.5inches with the vortex links. Do i have to lower the front as well? I would like not to but if i have to i will. Will lowering the rear a bit be ok? I'm 155lbs.
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 02:36 AM
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Lowering the rear of the chassis 2.5" will change the angle of the fork some, which will increase rake. Instead of the fork being 25 degrees from vertical (very, very steep) it would become less vertical. The fork angle would be something like 27+ degrees. This will make the steering ever so slightly slower and heavier.

Most of the street bikes I rode which were not based on racing platforms had steering with fork angles at this sort of value. I have put 10s of thousands of miles on bikes with 35 degrees of rake. Easily, 120,000 miles. I expect you would have trouble noticing a difference, tbh. At least until you were to start riding on a track. Slower, higher effort magnified by the narrow clip on handle bars.

Using links to alter the rear suspension geometry changes the leverage ratio applied to the shock and spring. That will change ride quality, which will affect handling. Again, if you only ride on the street that may be something you can adjust to. I expect the ride quality at the back to be more harsh, as you are taking away more than half the distance the wheel was designed to travel. Sort of similar to what happens when you have a passenger. The extra weight compresses the rear suspension more than the front.......

Make just the one change, and gather experience with it. The best thing about links is you can just as easily remove them. If you like the result you could modify the forks at a later point.

I caution you about pulling the forks up through the triple clamps. Do that as a last resort. Very easy to make a sweet handling thoroughbred into a vicious killer. The bike is already very close to the limit of how vertical the fork can be. Chassis attitude changes making the steering more vertical usually involve placing a shim on top of the shock to tip the back of the chassis higher, all of 10mm or so.

You're starting out by going much further in the other direction.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
Lowering the rear of the chassis 2.5" will change the angle of the fork some, which will increase rake. Instead of the fork being 25 degrees from vertical (very, very steep) it would become less vertical. The fork angle would be something like 27+ degrees. This will make the steering ever so slightly slower and heavier.

Most of the street bikes I rode which were not based on racing platforms had steering with fork angles at this sort of value. I have put 10s of thousands of miles on bikes with 35 degrees of rake. Easily, 120,000 miles. I expect you would have trouble noticing a difference, tbh. At least until you were to start riding on a track. Slower, higher effort magnified by the narrow clip on handle bars.

Using links to alter the rear suspension geometry changes the leverage ratio applied to the shock and spring. That will change ride quality, which will affect handling. Again, if you only ride on the street that may be something you can adjust to. I expect the ride quality at the back to be more harsh, as you are taking away more than half the distance the wheel was designed to travel. Sort of similar to what happens when you have a passenger. The extra weight compresses the rear suspension more than the front.......

Make just the one change, and gather experience with it. The best thing about links is you can just as easily remove them. If you like the result you could modify the forks at a later point.

I caution you about pulling the forks up through the triple clamps. Do that as a last resort. Very easy to make a sweet handling thoroughbred into a vicious killer. The bike is already very close to the limit of how vertical the fork can be. Chassis attitude changes making the steering more vertical usually involve placing a shim on top of the shock to tip the back of the chassis higher, all of 10mm or so.

You're starting out by going much further in the other direction.

Damn great explanation. I only street ride. So in other words just lower the rear and leave the front stock? Correct?
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 05:04 PM
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That's the lowest risk approach, of the options you are considering.

It would be better to get thick soled shoes, and leave the bike alone..... But your position is certainly understandable.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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That's the lowest risk approach, of the options you are considering.

It would be better to get thick soled shoes, and leave the bike alone..... But your position is certainly understandable.
Dude all i want is a yes or no answer if i can lower the rear and be ok. Lol don't get technical
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:35 PM
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It's a qualified yes. The nice part is you can go back to stick easily, if you decide you want to.A modicum of caution is warranted.

Handling will change, some.

Ride quality will change. Some.

Presuming you are handy with hand tools, this is an easy do it at home project.

If you're not and mess it up, results may be dangerous. If all goes well and you fail to account for the changes in handling, things could end poorly.

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post #7 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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It's a qualified yes. The nice part is you can go back to stick easily, if you decide you want to.A modicum of caution is warranted.

Handling will change, some.

Ride quality will change. Some.

Presuming you are handy with hand tools, this is an easy do it at home project.

If you're not and mess it up, results may be dangerous. If all goes well and you fail to account for the changes in handling, things could end poorly.
I have successfully lowered it. I can flat foot it now but i feel zero difference in handling. Feels exactly the same if anything i turns in quicker.
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 06:40 PM
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If you're happy with it, it's a success. The more raked out fork increases trail, which will tend to make the front turn into the direction the bike is leaning. If you aren't at the point of learning counter steering, that would tend to reduce your effort to turn.

When you (eventually) want to make the fastest possible change in direction, that comes from making the bike lean off the contact patch asap. Steering the wheels out from under the bike is that fastest possible way. Counter steering.

To go left, push the left bar forward. Front wheel turns right, chassis 'rolls' counter clockwise as you would sit on the bike, and falls to the left.... Bike goes left. The harder/faster you do that, the sharper the change in direction.

This is how ALL turns on a single track vehicle occur. It's also how we walk forward..... Our feet trail behind our heads/hips/torso, and we begin to fall. Our feet catch up just enough to keep it going.I

If this is a concept that is unfamiliar, I most humbly suggest that you may benefit from structured formal training.

V/r,
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-13-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiquattro View Post
I have successfully lowered it. I can flat foot it now but i feel zero difference in handling. Feels exactly the same if anything i turns in quicker.

Then you do not ride it like a sportbike it designed to be ridden

No way, no how did the handling not turn to absolute shit lowering the rear 2.5"

For one the geometry changed so drastically even your effective shock spring rate front and rear is different on the bike

But hey, stupid people have done much stupider and managed to survive
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-13-2019, 07:09 AM
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-13-2019, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by riverszzr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiquattro View Post
I have successfully lowered it. I can flat foot it now but i feel zero difference in handling. Feels exactly the same if anything i turns in quicker.

Then you do not ride it like a sportbike it designed to be ridden

No way, no how did the handling not turn to absolute shit lowering the rear 2.5"

For one the geometry changed so drastically even your effective shock spring rate front and rear is different on the bike

But hey, stupid people have done much stupider and managed to survive

If you ride your bike like a racetrack rider on the street good for you. I'm not into that i like to enjoy my rides and chill. Once in a while i hit it hard. I don't take super fast corners all my commutes ate straight aways so yes for my type of riding i did not notice it.
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-13-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiquattro View Post
If you ride your bike like a racetrack rider on the street good for you. I'm not into that i like to enjoy my rides and chill. Once in a while i hit it hard. I don't take super fast corners all my commutes ate straight aways so yes for my type of riding i did not notice it.

I never ride on the street like it is a racetrack, yet I do enjoy my motorcycles and will corner low enough to wear out the edges of the tires too, not just the center


Your dillusion that dropping the bike 2.5" and has had no adverse effects on handling is juts that, a dillusion........ But obvioulsy you ride it slow enough and straight up and down enough you can't tell the difference

One doesn't have to (and fyi..........never should!!) ride anywhere like it is the racetrack to use enough of the abilities of a sportbike to be able to tell them difference between one working properly and an ill handling pile o doodoo someone dropped 2.5 inches....

and if you are really 5'5" tall............ WTF would you drop it that far for?

I have tons of customers in that same height range with no drop or at most a 1" drop

woohoo we are having fun now
Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-14-2019, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjiquattro View Post
If you ride your bike like a racetrack rider on the street good for you. I'm not into that i like to enjoy my rides and chill. Once in a while i hit it hard. I don't take super fast corners all my commutes ate straight aways so yes for my type of riding i did not notice it.

I never ride on the street like it is a racetrack, yet I do enjoy my motorcycles and will corner low enough to wear out the edges of the tires too, not just the center


Your dillusion that dropping the bike 2.5" and has had no adverse effects on handling is juts that, a dillusion........ But obvioulsy you ride it slow enough and straight up and down enough you can't tell the difference

One doesn't have to (and fyi..........never should!!) ride anywhere like it is the racetrack to use enough of the abilities of a sportbike to be able to tell them difference between one working properly and an ill handling pile o doodoo someone dropped 2.5 inches....

and if you are really 5'5" tall............ WTF would you drop it that far for?

I have tons of customers in that same height range with no drop or at most a 1" drop
Because i felt like it lol. Does it look bad?
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-14-2019, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ2112 View Post
Lowering the rear of the chassis 2.5" will change the angle of the fork some, which will increase rake. Instead of the fork being 25 degrees from vertical (very, very steep) it would become less vertical. The fork angle would be something like 27+ degrees. This will make the steering ever so slightly slower and heavier.

Most of the street bikes I rode which were not based on racing platforms had steering with fork angles at this sort of value. I have put 10s of thousands of miles on bikes with 35 degrees of rake. Easily, 120,000 miles. I expect you would have trouble noticing a difference, tbh. At least until you were to start riding on a track. Slower, higher effort magnified by the narrow clip on handle bars.

Using links to alter the rear suspension geometry changes the leverage ratio applied to the shock and spring. That will change ride quality, which will affect handling. Again, if you only ride on the street that may be something you can adjust to. I expect the ride quality at the back to be more harsh, as you are taking away more than half the distance the wheel was designed to travel. Sort of similar to what happens when you have a passenger. The extra weight compresses the rear suspension more than the front.......

Make just the one change, and gather experience with it. The best thing about links is you can just as easily remove them. If you like the result you could modify the forks at a later point.

I caution you about pulling the forks up through the triple clamps. Do that as a last resort. Very easy to make a sweet handling thoroughbred into a vicious killer. The bike is already very close to the limit of how vertical the fork can be. Chassis attitude changes making the steering more vertical usually involve placing a shim on top of the shock to tip the back of the chassis higher, all of 10mm or so.

You're starting out by going much further in the other direction.


Aahhh, a qualified two-thumbs up .

But I have just a wee question, almost as a point of order. Dear Mr RJ, sir... might it be possible to install the lowering links... and add a shim+ to sort of find a "... Happy medium... ?" Mind you this is only but a humble question for the sake of others who might be in Mr Benjiquattro situation.


Spacer Set: 92026-1586 (T = 1.0 mm/2.0 mm/3.2 mm/4.5 mm).
Spacer: 92026-0140 (Standard T = 4.0 mm)


file:///C:/Users/Owner/Documents/ZX-6R%20Mods/Height%20Adjustment2009ZX-6R_Racing_Kit_Manual.pdf

Never mind if the Manual says it's for 2009, it's still applicable to 2013-'18.

Go to Contents; then scroll down to Frame Parts Installation; then again scroll down to Height Adjustment at mid-bottom of page 32, tap words, and it will take you to p. 32.

Sorry if this was a bit of a high-jack, I only wanted to give less versed souls that there are options to fine tune their setup.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-14-2019, 02:35 PM
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Oh yeah, some guys just go to Home Depot or Lowes or Ace Hardware and buy washers. For a one man job the shims are much easier to slip in/out as you are testing over all height.

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Last edited by ZedExMuse; 07-14-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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