On my ride tonight I noticed my 09 zx6r was alot louder than usual. Best way to explain it is that it sounded very raw. It was also back firing alot on decel, and when I came to a stop it stalled on my twice. The rpm would drop below 1000 and instead of rising back up, shed die. Started but up just fine though....
It was almost chugging/popping in 3rd gear around 5000-6000 rpm on the throttle...almost like a misfire.
I don't know where to start looking. I believe it seems to be either an air, fuel, or vacuum related issue. Didn't necessarily notice any drop in power... It just wasn't running the way it should...and the 2 stalls started to worry me and I wasn't enjoying being on the saddle.
I do have a proper dyno tune and a pcv.
Strange thing is, it would run well, then shitty, then start popping again, then would run fine.
Maybe even spark plugs or a coil? I got new plugs put in 2000 miles ago right before my dyno tune.
I'm a bit stumped here and hopefully it isn't anything too serious. Just thought some of you may be able to chime in before I take her to the mechanic.
Valve clearance and throttle synch also done 300 miles ago. Only really recognized the issue this evening. It did sound louder after my valve clearance though, but in a good strong way.
Thanks in advance
Backfiring/popping on trailing throttle indicates a lean mixture. The louder exhaust indicates an exhaust leak, which can also cause the trailing throttle popping. I would check the exhaust system over from head to tailpipe, checking for any loose bolts or connections. Was the exhaust system removed for the valve lash check?
It sounds to me like an exhaust gasket has died, but I wouldn't expect that to cause your low idle problems considering it is fuel injected. Since the throttle bodies were synched recently I would also look at them to be sure nothing is leaking air.
I'll ride out the rest of this tank of gas and check the exhaust airbox also. I forgot to mention it only started hapenning when the bike was at operating temp...85+. When the temp was in the 60s she was running fine
PAIR valve system on the top of the valve cover, one of the covers loose? or the hoses that run between them and the air box etc
I would pull the tank and air box and take a look
none of your exhuast gaskets suddenly unexplicity went bad........... but you certainly can easily check to make sure all the nuts are on the exhuast header and that they are tight.
I am getting a new rear tire put on Saturday and my mechanic said he'd pop the tank off and look in there for me at no cost while someones doing the tire. He said it sounds like its vacuum related as it gets worse when the temp of the bike.
Could it even be a side stand switch issue? It's almost sounding and behaving like my it was when the battery died and the bike was running off the power of stator. I hope that't not the issue because the stator/rectifier job put a hole in my pocket and I'd hate to be over working the stator again and have to replace is 3000 miles later!
Did load test on my battery last night. 12.8v with bike off, 14.8v with bike running. When I got back from ride and turned bike off it read a full 13v so it looks like the charging system is working just fine.
Bike was running fine last night because it didn't reach operating temp because it was pretty chilly out.
Air filter was fine, no oil in the airbox either. Pulled the plugs and all of em were black. Turns out the bike is running rich and the person that tuned my bike it throwing it on the dyno to make some adjustments. Plugs were only in bike for 4000km.
Ran perfectly fine with the new plugs.
Once I get my bike on the dyno I'll show u results.
Update. Was riding around town last night and low and behold bike was running rough again. When I am in stop and go traffic it seems to run at it's worst as it stalled out on me as I was coming to a stop in 1st and pulled the clutch in. Started up fine. It popped 2 or 3 times easy on the throttle in 1st gear which means it is also misfiring, not just backfiring like a mofo.
I am taking it to my tuner tomorrow and he is going to do a diagnostic on the dyno (be is almost certain it is a sensor issue as it only seems to be happening in certain conditions when the bike gets warm), but I don't want to put any strain on the bike (its a 70mile hike).
Do you think it could be something electric related? fouled wires? I am still getting a wif of something very similary to how maxima chain wax smells when over spray goes on the pipe. The smell seems to be coming from the radiator area.
What do you guys think? Drop it off at the shop and let them have it for a while, or take it to my tuner to see if something is off with the map. Maps don't change and nothing has been modified to my bike since I got it tuned....and it was running great all summer after the tune.
And the saga continues. I took her back to burly cycle as it really only started acting up after valve clearance. They did a full inspection of the bike... Valves are in spec, the timing is ok, and they couldn't figure out why it was running poorly. 2 techs took it out for 20 minutes each and said it was all smiles and it runs fantastic. Weird because it was back firing and mis firing on the ride there and stalled when I arrived.
They didn't charge me for the service as nothing needed to be replaced.
Kinda strange......Think maybe they found out something they did incorrectly and fixed it, then just didn't want to say they fucked up?
I'll see how she runs when I pick it up Wednesday evening
They never installed the pcv or tuned the bike. They did the valve clearance and the throttle synch... But ya it is possible they did screw up on something and didn't want to let me know.
I will be picking the bike up Wednesday evening (only time I'm free). If bike is running fine again I'll be happy... If not then I will disconnect the power commander and plug the oem harness to the cylinders and see if that makes a difference.
Well guys another update.... Rode back from the shop that looked at my bike who said "everything was perfect" with it. This time I noticed that my bike was running rough when it was heated up and I started hitting bumps on the road and on a hill (maybe didn't clue into that before). Rode into my underground parking down a steep slope and FI light blinked 3 times along with oil light running rough when I got to a flat surface again, then stopped and was idling fine again.
I said to myself, screw it let's tighten the shit out of the tilt sensor. Well.... I rode around my neighbourhood (incase bike died) for 45 minutes, went into some schools and let it idle and really heat up, continued riding, would stop and go again. Hit some bumps, dipped back and forth...2-3 seconds of backfire the whole rodeand it stopped quickly. Fingers crossed that's all it was.
Also, see the attached connection (I think it's the side stand switch). Seems to be pretty gunked up and is covered in some oil from when I took the filter off last oil change. The wires seem bunched/bent and there is oil on the clip connection.... Maybe that was an issue also?
Anyways, I hope that it was the tilt sensor causing the issues.....but I'm not too sure it would throw off a FI light, hmmmmn.
Haven't bothered with the power commander yet as it seemed to ride fine.
I would be in the camp of an intermittent electrical connection.
I'd go over the entire wiring harness looking for loose connections..... my '09 was giving me a lot of weird behavior (mine was mostly related to the oil pressure warning light) when the main wiring harness ground was getting funky. Under the front seat, where the harness is bolted to the frame for a chassis ground. In my case, I had to remove that bolt, and gooped everything with dielectric grease to make sure it didn't corrode in the future.
The ground side of the circuit is every bit as important as the side we think of as 'hot'. Grounds are more important on any connection where different metals are in contact. Especially where they can get dirty and wet.
I would suggest that you take the body work off the bike, and trace out every wire you can on the chassis. Every quick disconnect you find, open it up flood the female side with dielectric grease and put it back together. The grease will prevent oxygen from getting to the metal of the contacts, so they won't rust again. Rust never sleeps. A barrier to prevent water from getting in there is all you can do to slow/stop the process.
Look for pinched wires, burnt connectors, melted plastic, anywhere you see discoloration on the metals..... rust doesn't have to be red. grayish, whitish, greenish.... depends on what is oxidizing. Almost all rusts are much less conductive than refined metal is.
Thanks for Chiming in RJ. I have yet to take apart all the fairings on this bike as it seems like a huge PITA. My new mechanic will allow me to tool on my bike with him, so I think we will take it apart together, as for future reference I won't run into many hick ups (I have horrible luck, its in the genes). This seems like a good idea, and if my bike does keep acting up I will definitely do this as it wouldn't hurt.
Is the tilt switch supposed to wiggle around a lot? Before I tightened the crap out of mine, it seemed fairly loose. It almost didn't seem like the screws wanted to tighten much more, but I got about a solid full turn on each and it is sitting much more solid at the moment.
Once you've learned to take the nose clip off as one piece, it's nowhere near as intimidating to pull the plastics.
Take off the lower fairings. Four screws and two plastic rivets, each side.
Take off the mirrors, take off the inside 'cheek' fairings, pull one bolt on either side of the headlight assembly. There is a screw near the trailing edge of the fairing, and some grommets you need to pull the plastic 'barb' out of.
That's it. Once you wiggle the nose clip loose you will need to upplug the headlights, turn signals, marker lights, and the R/R. The whole thing comes off as one piece at that point.
Tail section takes a little more finesse, but it's no more complicated.
Ya I'll give it a shot eventually! Just wish they made the bike a bit easier to take apart. My friend and I completely take apart his 2008 GSXR within 5 minutes LOL!
I will be doing a highway run tonight and will go over some train tracks also and see how bike performs. If it runs smooth (like it was last night) I may have found the fix....if not, I will definitely take a look at entire harness/grounds/connections etc. Living in Toronto, this is when the season really starts to fire up and I just wanna be on 2 again without having the thought in the back of my head that the bikes gonna crap out. I'm also a tad nervous to hit the twisties hard because if the bike cuts out in a corner, that could be bad news bears.
The tilt switch is really an "I'm upside down" or "I've fallen, and I can't get up" kind of a deal. It has to be a relatively slow acting switch so it doesn't freak out when you take a corner and hit a pothole. shouldn't matter much if it wiggles around somewhat.
One thing is absolutely certain...
No chance in hell they got all the bodywork off and on and checked valve clearances and got that all back together and had two techs test ride your bike........... all in under 3 hours
never fucking happened, no way no how!
but I am with RJ
disconnect, clean and di-electric the grounds (all of them) and even better yet do all electrical connections........ 10 year old bike can easily have some connection issues
The sidestand switch can cause the engine to shut off, if the sidestand wiggles away from it far enough. That microswitch is expecting the stand to stay all the way up, rather than most of the way up.
The 'kill' switch can cause intermittent issues, if it is never used. The point of contact between the rocker and the copper strip underneath will corrode and pit over time if it never moves.
Always a good idea to ensure all of the switches on your bike do what they are supposed to on a regular basis. Excercise the contacts, and the relays to prevent corrosion between the contacts.
You should be able to kill the bike by putting it in gear with the sidestand down. It should also die when you cycle the kill switch, no matter what else is going on. The clutch switch should allow you to start the bike in gear, with the sidestand up.
In the last 2 weeks or so I have had the following happen:
1. Killswitch hit by a dumb ass friend at red light LOL! - Success
2. Put into 1st gear with sidestand down and engine shut down - Success
I have yet to start the bike in 1st gear with sidestand up and clutch in as I always park it in neutral.
A couple weeks ago after my oil change I noticed the inner bottom fairing was swamped in excess lube and some oil, so I sprayed some chain cleaner on a rag and wiped it down. The chain cleaner I use says its plastic friendly. I don't think this is a biggy, but at the same time I wiped down the outside of the side stand switch with the rag as it was gunked up also. At the time I didn't think it would really do anything as I wasn't cleaning the inside of the switch (just the outer part). This wouldn't have seeped into the switch and done any harm would it?
Just trying to think outside the box here as electrical stuff can be a PITA and very frustrating. I don't think it would do any harm, but there is always that chance. My bike actually started acting up the next ride after I did that now that I think about it. Darn.....
Soak the switch in WD-40, and wipe it dry. Work the plunger in and out until it moves freely... Repeat until it's operating normally. Makes sure the sidestand goes all the way up.
So the side stand switch was fine!
I rode for about 20 miles last night to meet with some friends and bike ran amazing. Fired her up and about half way back the demon came back to haunt me. I am 100% certain its an intermittent electrical issue now.
Wish I could load videos here because this is hard to explain. The big plastic box piece that holds battery, relay, ecu has 2 bold that are under the fuel tank (see attached pictures). Well....the freakin left bolt is missing and if I put my hand under the (I don't know what to call it) compartment and lift up it moves pretty darn good...I'd say by a solid 1/2 inch each way (up/down) or so. This would explain if I was to be on a bumpy road, that whole compartment would be moving up and down and could cause a short somewhere.
Checked my negative ground from battery to under tank...A OK, both are solid. I am going to check the 10A IG fuse and 15A ECU fuse to see if they are loose/blown. May as well check the 30A main fuse under the gas tank also.
Now, if the fuses are loose/burnt, that would explain why I am getting intermittent electrical issues right?. Would a short somewhere in the electrical harness cause a fuse to blow? I think it would....
After seeing this issue, and the symptoms my bike is having I am getting closer and closer before I rip all the fairings off and look at all connections.
A short to ground might cause a fuse to blow. But you can have shorts to other signal wires it to power, which can cause erratic signals to the ECM or other sensors, but may not blow any fuses. Even an intermittent open circuit can cause issues like this.
Do you have anything in mind that I should keep an eye out for? This is driving me bonkers. Warm weather arrives in Toronto and I don't feel comfortable on 2 LOL!
looking at your two photos, It looks like your negative battery cable is not OEM..... not that it should matter, so long as it is well connected to chassis ground....Your first photo shows the cable descending into the space below the throtle bodies 'ahead' of the battery assembly. As I recall, that cable is supposed to be moutned to a bolt into the frame in that area. Does it do so?
The cable that you see in the picture is the cable from my power commander going down the side of the bike to the injectors. You can't see the negative battery cable in the pictures. The negative terminal is mounted below the gas tank to the frame yes. It's the only thing mounted there.
So I temporarily stuffed a rag wrapped in electrical tape between the compartment where battery, ECU, and relay all sit (its a big bucket piece under the seat) to stop it from banging around until I get the screw. It slightly fold over the positive connection on the battery also in case it was shorting out on something. I also took the lower left faring off and unplugged the gunked up connector that lead towards the kickstand and gear shifter. Clean up the connector inside and out. Also unplugged my IG fuse and ECU fuse and put em back in.
Rode about 100 miles since Friday evening without a single hiccup. Took a bunch of trouble shooting until I finally realized it started acting up when I was going over bumps on the road.
Funny how the mechanics that did my valve adjustment took "4 hours" and went through a bunch of shit, took it out on test rides and said it was all good when they weren't even the slightest bit close to what the actual issue was, and best of all, it stalled on me and my FI light came on when got home (3 mile ride home).
I've learned that electrical issues are a huge PITA and is a pain to track down. It can be something serious causing the issue, but at the same time can be something which is so easily over looked, like noticing that screw was missing and the compartment under my seat was getting banged around over bumps.....fingers crossed the problem is solved.
It was happening on and off within 5 miles of a ride, and now 100 miles later without a hiccup... shes running like she was the day it was tuned.
Just thought I'd let ya guys know how she's doing. Feels good to be back on 2
Update!
Bikes been running great after I replaced the missing bolt under the gas tank that connects the tray where battery, ecu, and main relay sit in. Nothing was really rattling around anymore so all good. Well god damn...it came back to haunt me last night!! Every time I went over a bump the throttle would slightly cut out, then I hit a nice bump and bam, backfire, misfire, just running like a bag of shit. Instead of turning the bike off I pulled into a parking lot and took seat off. Moved the main harness around and there she goes...bike wanted to cut out every time I moved it. Then I really moved the harness and the bike cut out completely. Turned the bike back on and same thing... Anywhere on the main harness whether it be near the relay or down closer to the gas tank/around the rpm's would drop and then when I moved it with a tad more force the bike would stall.
Turned bike on for a 3rd time and absolutely nothing happened when I moved around the harness...like absolutely nothing was wrong with it, tt was running fine, no matter how much I moved the harness, in any spot.
So ya, nailed it down to an intermittent short in the harness somewhere. Time to cut away all the tape and see what's going on. I was looking at pictures of used wiring harnesses, and there are two pin hole connectors with black and yellow wires, right near where the main fuse is on the harness. I think these may be secondary grounds? Was looking in the service manual, but I was getting lost with the wiring diagrams and couldn't figure it out. I can see these either mounting to the side of the frame, or under the gas tank near the main fuse. Wouldn't be surprised maybe those grounds (if they are grounds) are the culprit. Similar to when you have a bad ground on the negative battery terminal....it can run perfectly fine, but once you go over bumps and the ground loses connection the bike acts all wonky until is makes connection again.
Super happy I nailed it rather than replacing a ton of sensors, parts, etc.
Wish I could post a video, but I can't figure out how.
Ill keep you posted when the electrical gremlins from hell are found. This has been driving me nuts as it's so intermittent.
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