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Discussion Starter #121
^^^A friend of mine, born in Taiwan after his parents fled the communists from the mainland stayed in contact with family that didn't..... He told us about the peasants startling the flocks of birds by beating on pots and pans --- so they would fly so much as to become exhausted, so they could catch them and have meat to eat.

Nowhere near as far off the mark as you think.....
 

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I guess the china flu really isn't so contagious..............

All these protestors and in close proximity for days and days now and no new cases...........
 
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Discussion Starter #123
See where the numbers go, next week. I'm right there with you, zero new cases would change the narrative considerably. I'd bet the cases will increase.
 

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Discussion Starter #124
This was posted on my aol feed this morning....

 

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As far as I can tell the lockdown is over. There are threats of arrest if you attend church while following social distancing guidelines but its completely fine to violently riot while not wearing a mask and not following social distancing. Maybe at one point it was about "bending the curve" but it quickly became became about power.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
If you've followed the published research, the transmission vector is respiratory. A person who is infected sheds virus in their exhalation. The harder that person exhales, the more virus they spread. Singing in a congregation, in a poorly ventilated setting exponentially increases the rate of infection.

Same reason that meat packing plants are not spots. Loud workplace with people shoulder to shoulder, shouting to talk to each other.... Lousy ventilation on top of that = high probability.

There's nothing different in what the opportunistic virus will do, placed in a fertile breeding ground.

How do you back trace a protest? One sick bozo in that crowd, x # of people in that crowd, x amount of time in close proximity = post protest infected population.

stupid behavior and stupid reactions do not add up to a conspiracy.
 

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I guess the china flu really isn't so contagious..............

All these protestors and in close proximity for days and days now and no new cases...........
Apparently not
 

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Maybe all this rioting is the perfect distraction from the fact that the coronavirus was nowhere as deadly as they made it out to be.
Bunch of malarkey
 
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Currently in Moab UT, from the looks of it there is no virus here. Everything open lots of people, not so many older folks but lots of young adults and families with small kids. A few folks wearing masks. Tried to eat this a resturant but long wait for outside table. Last night had a great dinner in Vernal UT, sat outside and was not crowded. Black Hills was crawling with cruisers last Sunday. Mount Rushmore on Monday wasn’t bad but lots of people without masks. have ride. The Snowy Range Pass and Battle Pass in Southern Wyoming. Some great curves but dont know the roads so temper my pace. Today rode Baker pass in western CO, fun but an adrenaline pumper. Fresh gravel on shoulder so kicked up in turns. On corner was real bad but fortunately saw it so could slow to like 10mph! Saw a pickup that didn’t catch on in time and would up bouncing off the guardrail and dislocating left front wheel - that will take some effort to pop back in place! Pic from Snowy Rang Pass. LOL didn’t need to pull off to take pic, I could have stopped in the middle of the road and taken it - almost no traffic but road was good.
 

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Way to get out there man
 

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Discussion Starter #132

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Got back home last night after 16 days on the road. What a difference. When I left people were still pretty much staying home, roads weren't crowded but starting to get a bit of traffic. Folks were wearing face masks. Now it seems to be business as usual with not many people wearing face masks.

Went from Alabama thru Mississippi, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska to South Dakota. Spent one night in the Badlands and two in Hot Springs South Dakota. From there dropped down to Laramie Wyoming and then on the Vernal Utah. Between Laramie and Vernal made three passes in one day! Snowy Range Pass (hwy 130 between Centennial and Saratoga), then Battle Pass (hwy 70 south of Encampment) and finally Douglass Pass on Colorado 139 south of Rangley in the north west part of the state. Road surface was generally good in all passes curves were great. Douglass Pass was not as good because they had just put gravel on the shoulders and trucks and trailers kicked it up on the corners. Generally not too bad but one corner was evenly covered - good I was watching for it wand was able to slow way down and tiptoe thru. Once thru I discovered what looked like a local pickup that had misjudged and reshaped the body and dislocated the left front wheel. On 191 from Moab to Rock Springs there were two more passes and some great curves but it was raining. First pass was 9,111" and the temperature 34.7F in the rain! I'm on a motorcycle! Didn't get to second pass as the sign said road closed 17 miles before so had to take an alternate route. Spent a couple of days in Fort Collins Colorado - was going to Duboise Wyoming but 29F and snow deterred me. Did a couple of rides up into the mountains from Fort Collins - hwy 14 and 34. 14 was much better, less traffic. Road surface was good. Moab was 99F, next day I rode to Rock Springs Wyoming with the temperature ranging from 57 yo 34.7F and rain most of the way. Oh can't forget the wind either! Sadly trip had to come to an end and I had to come back east.
 

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I went to a restaurant/bar the other day. The place was packed. It felt very strange. Nobody was wearing a mask. Shortly after that, I went to the grocery store and around 75% of the people there were wearing masks(I think it’s also store policy at that grocery store that employees wear masks). Why? Does that just show what kind of people eat out regularly and what kind of people cook at home? It was just such a stark contrast that I can’t stop thinking about it. I’ve also been to a few other places where none of the employees were wearing masks and nobody else was wearing one either.


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Discussion Starter #136
It's because of that lopsided application that the wearing of masks will eventually have little overall effect. Too much to ask of people to defend against a threat that they do not see acting on them personally every day. Too idealized.

I had to go see my urologist yesterday afternoon, to follow up on my blood work.... medical staffs are relatively consistent -- his staff, more so than most. Everyone was behind glass partitions, wearing masks. All customer interface was done remotely, with the exception of the Dr. himself.... some things, you just have to snap on the rubber glove and do for yourself. Mask in place, five minutes of conversation, he did his thing, then I saw the nurse to get my every 6 month subcutaneous injection, and on my way.

I would have been more or less fine with all of that, if it had happened on schedule. I arrived 10 minutes early (after sitting in my car for 20 minutes), so I could spend as little time in the building as was reasonable. Through the lobby, into the elevator, find the office.... I ended up waiting about an hour after my scheduled appointment to leave the waiting room to proceed to the treatment area. There were only 4 other people in the waiting area, spaced over 10' apart from each other so we were all doing as best we could to maintain distance.

Still felt incredibly stressful to have to wait that long.
 

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Man, so this counts as virus impact.

My wife and I had a child over the weekend. Checked into the hospital Friday night for a normal induction. Both of us had our temperature checked anytime we crossed authentication points etc.

At one point balls deep in labor and almost 12 hours after her water broke, my wife scored one 100.2. The nurse in charge deemed that even though their line is 100.4, all 3 of us were presumptive positive. She never had another high reading, and was not given anything to lower fever.

They tested her, and promised results 12 hours later.

It took 33 hours to get the test back. During that time there were numerous attempts to separate me from my wife/daughter. Including at one point demanding I leave the premises. The whole time every response when we asked about her test was “soon”. Their reason was supposedly someone saw me coughing.

Now... I smoked cigarettes from 12 to 30 with most of that being a pack a day habit. I do indeed cough sometimes. I quit over a year ago, but still sometimes have a dry smokers cough. 🤷‍♂️ the screening questions asked about “flu or cold like symptoms”, and I was my normal. Perhaps I should have proactively had that conversation.

Either way what was presented to me seemed like yet another attempt to separate me from my wife/child. The medical staff consistently tried to steamroll my wife, and would only explain stuff if I jumped in and questioned them. A bunch of “no”s became “yes”s merely by asking for the logic behind the “no”. Several “mandatory” treatments became a choice with asking for an explanation of the treatment.

Given the hospital’s incentives to diagnose covid19, the repeated attempts to separate me (the person advocating for my wife) from my wife, and the fact that they were being needlessly obscure about their testing process. I am not at all convinced they were acting in good faith. The “symptoms” were being .2 degrees BELOW the cutoff line, and a sleep deprived ex-smoker coughing.

It was not until this afternoon that my wife was even allowed to hold our daughter after her test finally came back negative. I was able to talk them into letting me visit her this morning.

Another observation was that the staff had completely different responses. Some were very rigorous about all the PPE. Others looked at us and said “lol I’ve treated patients with this disease... neither of you have it. You have no symptoms.” So every shift change was back and forth between an almost “normal” hospital experience, to a scene out of a zombie movie.

I’m not really sure what my point is. Just telling a story.

Ey3
 

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WOW, not a good story! Congratulations on your daughter! Your life has changed.

As for your experience I will have to ask my son (2nd year resident) about it. When COVID broke out he was dong an obstetric rotation, then did an orthopedic rotation but has been doing hospital stuff the past few weeks. IMO throughout this common sense seems to have eluded us. I can understand their concern as there are a lot of people who test positive without symptoms. My son said they had a patient whose symptom was diarrhea which is something I typically don't associate with a cold or the flu. If I hear or see someone cough it makes me really nervous but on the other hand I went to the dentist their first week back. I got something in my throat and could not keep from coughing! Although I used to see obviously sick folks out I do not anymore which is a good thing. Saw something today that although COVID cases are spiking hospitalization and death rates are not which I think is a good sign.

Have a friend who went for readmission testing for knee surgery. COVID test came back positive! He's spent the last three days in fear and today he got a negative test result - but he's still quarantined for 2 weeks until he gets a second negative!
 

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WOW, not a good story! Congratulations on your daughter! Your life has changed.

As for your experience I will have to ask my son (2nd year resident) about it. When COVID broke out he was dong an obstetric rotation, then did an orthopedic rotation but has been doing hospital stuff the past few weeks. IMO throughout this common sense seems to have eluded us. I can understand their concern as there are a lot of people who test positive without symptoms. My son said they had a patient whose symptom was diarrhea which is something I typically don't associate with a cold or the flu. If I hear or see someone cough it makes me really nervous but on the other hand I went to the dentist their first week back. I got something in my throat and could not keep from coughing! Although I used to see obviously sick folks out I do not anymore which is a good thing. Saw something today that although COVID cases are spiking hospitalization and death rates are not which I think is a good sign.

Have a friend who went for readmission testing for knee surgery. COVID test came back positive! He's spent the last three days in fear and today he got a negative test result - but he's still quarantined for 2 weeks until he gets a second negative!
Yeah. I can understand safety precautions. I would be curious if those precautions and behaviors are typical.

i think you are onto something with the whole common sense eluding us all. Like Rj said above. It needs to be shed from a host AND have an entry vector. It seems to me that much of the prevention is simply preventing egress (mouth nose covering) and preventing ingress (wash hands, and mouth and nose covering). Preventing potential exposure by not being around unnecessary numbers of people seems reasonable to me, for my risk tolerance, but I cannot really justify enforcing it on other ostensibly healthy people.

🤷‍♂️

Ey3
 

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Man, so this counts as virus impact.

My wife and I had a child over the weekend. Checked into the hospital Friday night for a normal induction. Both of us had our temperature checked anytime we crossed authentication points etc.

At one point balls deep in labor and almost 12 hours after her water broke, my wife scored one 100.2. The nurse in charge deemed that even though their line is 100.4, all 3 of us were presumptive positive. She never had another high reading, and was not given anything to lower fever.

They tested her, and promised results 12 hours later.

It took 33 hours to get the test back. During that time there were numerous attempts to separate me from my wife/daughter. Including at one point demanding I leave the premises. The whole time every response when we asked about her test was “soon”. Their reason was supposedly someone saw me coughing.

Now... I smoked cigarettes from 12 to 30 with most of that being a pack a day habit. I do indeed cough sometimes. I quit over a year ago, but still sometimes have a dry smokers cough. 🤷‍♂️ the screening questions asked about “flu or cold like symptoms”, and I was my normal. Perhaps I should have proactively had that conversation.

Either way what was presented to me seemed like yet another attempt to separate me from my wife/child. The medical staff consistently tried to steamroll my wife, and would only explain stuff if I jumped in and questioned them. A bunch of “no”s became “yes”s merely by asking for the logic behind the “no”. Several “mandatory” treatments became a choice with asking for an explanation of the treatment.

Given the hospital’s incentives to diagnose covid19, the repeated attempts to separate me (the person advocating for my wife) from my wife, and the fact that they were being needlessly obscure about their testing process. I am not at all convinced they were acting in good faith. The “symptoms” were being .2 degrees BELOW the cutoff line, and a sleep deprived ex-smoker coughing.

It was not until this afternoon that my wife was even allowed to hold our daughter after her test finally came back negative. I was able to talk them into letting me visit her this morning.

Another observation was that the staff had completely different responses. Some were very rigorous about all the PPE. Others looked at us and said “lol I’ve treated patients with this disease... neither of you have it. You have no symptoms.” So every shift change was back and forth between an almost “normal” hospital experience, to a scene out of a zombie movie.

I’m not really sure what my point is. Just telling a story.

Ey3
That’s kind of crazy
 
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