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^^This is good stuff, and oh so true! I remember a specific case on my ZX6R at Road America going into T5 (slowest turn on track at the end of the 2nd straightaway, braking from about 150 mph to 35ish), for some stupid reason that I can't remember I had a bit of an oh-shit moment and decided to suddenly let off the brakes completely as I was already halfway leaned over for the turn. Guess what happened...fast rebound back up, lightened up the front end, got a little wobbly mid-turn, but luckily didn't crash. I was amazed that I hadn't crashed to be honest, and I think the thing that saved me was the sticky Pirelli front!

I know that wasn't the only time I did that, but I remember that one well cuz it was pretty scary lol Very important to use the front brake effectively to control the way the forks are behaving. Of course that shouldn't mean that you can skip out on setting up the suspensions well, but when a guy on shitty bone stock forks on a ninja 300 which are like noodles is going lap record pace (for that class), you know a LOT of the work is being done by the right hand, not by fancy aftermarket parts ;)

The 2nd greatest thing about your story SBK, you are intelligent (enough) to recognize how utterly F-ing lucky you were. And your story is a great illustration on fork compression/rebound relationship. There are situations were one is better off trailing the front brakes a wee bit going into a very tight, bumpy corner. And also why one ought not just let go of the lever mid-exiting a corner. As you correctly noted how light the front end gets if the rider merely just lets go. 1) The normal result is losing the front end a few nano-seconds later. :eek:

2) Or, as the forks rapidly rebound the rider runs wide - and very quickly; the most common results is the rider & bike run quite wide at the exit, and goes off track. This usually ends unpleasantly for both rider & bike. :scared

Oh yeah, the 1st greatest thing about your story is Your Guardian Angel is grossly over worked, and grossly under paid. I hope you count your good fortune.
 

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Oh yeah, the 1st greatest thing about your story is Your Guardian Angel is grossly over worked, and grossly under paid. I hope you count your good fortune.
Over-worked?? Maybe a bit....under paid?? Definitely not! That guardian angel is the whole company called "Pirelli" and the people that I buy the tires from. And they're certainly not cheap! lol That's what really saved me from tucking the front ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #43
The afternoon session was way better after Dave Moss set up the suspension but I haven't been able to get the bike to steer properly since changing out the steering stem bearings. It keeps veering to a side and has heavy handling. I feel really frustrated with this bike. I also had a couple of headshakes at turn 1 at Laguna Seca and while braking into turn 2 and turn 7-8.

I'm going to inspect the races and bearings, loosen up the collar just enough to make sure there isn't any play, check rear wheel alignment and swap out the triples if it doesn't improve. Wheels are straight. Rotors are straight.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Andreani Revalve Kit

I installed my revalve kit yesterday. Instructions are in Italian which only has the stack specs so no problem. The valve compression side has drilled holes on the sides while the rebound is solid. Measured everything and put it in order.


ANDREANI MODIFICATION KIT FORK FOR FORK KAWASAKI ZX6R 636 2014
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Rebuilt my forks today and installed the new spring and valve kit. Oil was filthy! Previous fork sag was at 20-22mm without preload. It used to be fine with the 9.5N spring in street trim but switching to track fairings made them too heavy. Now I can adjust it to 25-30mm with the 9.25N spring.

Also had to readjust my steering stem bearings. They were still to tight at 5ft-lb. These needle bearings have to be hand tightened to get the proper play. I didn't like them. Using OEM ball-bearings next time.

I'm confident this will resolve my suspension issues. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and saving me 1k$.

:cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Currently at buttonwillow. I have to say that the respring and revalve exceeded my expectations. Unbelievably stable and turn in is better that I've ever felt it. I also finally understand how to adjust the suspension and what each change will do. Now I need to learn how to adjust the rear properly.
 

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I won't give advise, but I'll relate my personal experiences regarding a handful of different sportbikes:

The suspension is there to be your 'instant on personal coconut telegraph.' The main participants in this dialogue are (in no particular order):

1) Your brain, your butt, your hands, your feet, your knees/thighs, and your eyes. Any of them at any given second of any given minute can feed your brain significant information.

2) The tires (& wheels), these lovely black rubber/silica doughnuts dance on a ≈ 2.5" X 2" interface between you, the rider and the tarmac. The information they supply is ever changing by mere fractions of a second. Many factors affect the ultimate flow of data.

3) The suspension & chassis I'm gonna lump together, only for the sake of simplicity. Yes, they are separate, yet joined entities. Stating the relative obvious fact that in the vast majority of cases one is not going to be altering the chassis, but it is a very real possibility, none the less.

Most people I believe, place too much emphasis on twiddling the fork. Yes there are gains to be made there. Likewise most people neglect the rear end of the bike. Why? because it's not glamourous. Few see the bling when tuning forks and shocks. Personally, I think getting the shock dialed in is a 'must do.' Why? The shock affects every in./mm from the head stock back - that's most of the bike; it's also where the rider is. The front suspension takes its cues from the rear suspension/tire/spockets, etc.

I have learned the hard way where to invest mods on a sportbike, that doesn't mean I haven't performed purely adornment mods early on it the mod(s) phase. I certainly have. And some are done early in the relationship to accommodate my aging body, as well as my vanity. But no one makes suspension changes for their vanity - unless it's to keep their pretty face & the rest of their body (& the bike's) pristine.

On a street bike that maybe sees a little track time with a track day/school, but is otherwise used for pleasure/sport/transportation, etc., no non-sport bike rider will ever noticed you dumped nearly $12,000 on a set of Öhlins FGR300 (I used the most extreme for dramatic affect), or a cool eleven hundred dollars for a nice, but not top the line, but still used by factory/privateer racers, Öhlins TTX RT shock. But I think a mid-tier shock by K-Tech, Nitron, Öhlins, or Penske is a wise move for an upper 'B Group/A Group' rider. If you don't know that means leave your bike stock and enroll in a track day school ASAP. Also save your money on rebuilding your stock shock. They are not as rebuildable as aftermarket - no not even as stop gap. I've gone down that rabbit hole.

I also found that having my OEM forks re-built with new internals is a savvy move. This will get you to the 80-90+ percentile. But this would be a little on the back burner, because there are other things to sort out prior. Or another way I look at is, this is a nice to have, and not a need to have... until your riding abilities come up quite a bit.

A track only bike, also benefits from a mid-upper tier shock. I still think for a lot of 'A Group' riders can get by with new fork internals. Or at least until one becomes a contract rider for one of the major suspension manufacturers. What I found made a noticeable difference with bike transitions from little chicane wiggles to full left-full right; decreasing radii, off camber to off/on camber transitions are... wait for it... hold your breath... aftermarket wheels.

Now, this is a big-ticket item that really is over kill on the street, but on a track, at speed, they make quite a worthy asset to have. My experience was like I was on a completely different bike, so much so that I had to re-programme my brain to ride quite a bit deeper into the turn, otherwise I was turning in way too early. Sometimes clipping the inside of the turn that I was/and did come off the track a few times and on to the kerbing/rumble strip. But they are damn nice to have, and oh-so bling! Shwing! Beautiful.

Do I have aftermarket wheels on my ZX-6R? No! It's a street, mostly bike; me & my body are just to old. It sees the occasional track days, but that's it. I'd probably spend similar money either on track days, or on taking my 636 to the Rockies for two weeks, or ride down the California Coast, and back up through the Sierra Nevada/Cascade Ranges. (Though not right now with the tragic fires.)
 

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I didn't know Dave Moss recorded everything. lol I'm at 2:16. Dave Moss does great work. He took the time to help me understand what the issue was.
I have some questions and comments lol

1. Why do you have 42 on the bike but you're JD41, and everywhere on the forums is all about 41?

2. You don't look like a JD

3. If I knew nothing about you and I randomly saw you in the paddock I would think "Yep...definitely a Lorenzo fan" lol

4. That's cool that you got to work with Dave Moss! Does he charge for all of that, and if so how much?
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I have some questions and comments lol

1. Why do you have 42 on the bike but you're JD41, and everywhere on the forums is all about 41?

2. You don't look like a JD

3. If I knew nothing about you and I randomly saw you in the paddock I would think "Yep...definitely a Lorenzo fan" lol

4. That's cool that you got to work with Dave Moss! Does he charge for all of that, and if so how much?
1 I just use 41 because they make us run numbers at Laguna Seca, sound monitoring purposes, and it was the first number I used. Its also an easier username to remember and be remembered by... as you well know Mr @sbk1198;. :lol:

2 True, I don't look like a JD

3 lol. I can see that. I definitely don't look like a Rossi fan.

4 Yup. He only charges 40$! He does afternoon riding coaching which is a little bit steeper.
 

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Discussion Starter #54 (Edited)
Suspension is dialed in. In retrospect, my biggest problem was geometry. The front had little weight on it and stock rebound adjustment was insufficient. This all happened after I crashed about 2 years ago and switched from stock trim to track plastics. I should have taken into consideration the weight that shaved off. Additionally, the tank cover was transferring unwanted energy to my GPR damper and causing a weaving effect on the steering which was resolved after swapping to an ohlins/ graves mount. I should have also reset the engine mounts sooner. The revalve and spring swap helped to correct fork adjustment. Now feel is restored to the front and it has great stability where before it felt like a nervous twitchy wreck and was wheelie prone.
 

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Suspension is dialed in. In retrospect, my biggest problem was geometry. The front had little weight on it and stock rebound adjustment was insufficient. This all happened after I crashed about 2 years ago and switched from stock trim to track plastics. I should have taken into consideration the weight that shaved off. Additionally, the tank cover was transferring unwanted energy to my GPR damper and causing a weaving effect on the steering which was resolved after swapping to an ohlins/ graves mount. I should have also reset the engine mounts sooner. The revalve and spring swap helped to correct fork adjustment. Now feel is restored to the front and it has great stability where before it felt like a nervous twitchy wreck and was wheelie prone.
The tank cover was pushing but not the tank itself? Aren't they screwed into the same location and sandwiched over top by the GPR?

My bike is the opposite of a wheelie machine, I think I have the back up to high now that I'm running a 60 profile. Places it used to pop a wheel several inches it literally won't come up lol
 

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Discussion Starter #56
The tank cover was pushing but not the tank itself? Aren't they screwed into the same location and sandwiched over top by the GPR?

My bike is the opposite of a wheelie machine, I think I have the back up to high now that I'm running a 60 profile. Places it used to pop a wheel several inches it literally won't come up lol
The fiberglass cover would allow flex with the GPR bracket. The bracket only works bolted directly to the tank.

Yeah, the 60 profile with push a little more weight forward. Not necessarily a bad thing.
 

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The fiberglass cover would allow flex with the GPR bracket. The bracket only works bolted directly to the tank.

Yeah, the 60 profile with push a little more weight forward. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Yep, I think it works out pretty well. I already had used a nut to lift the back end up some, maybe 5-7mm sorta hard to measure, you can definitely tell that the ass of the bike is way up if you put it on the side stand.

I really should have someone knowledgeable look at it but I decided I wasn't going to change anything until I hit a wall and I just keep getting faster the way it is set-up now. I have a feeling now that I'm really picking up pace I'll start running into problems...everything still stock except adjustments I made and adding springs for my weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Yep, I think it works out pretty well. I already had used a nut to lift the back end up some, maybe 5-7mm sorta hard to measure, you can definitely tell that the ass of the bike is way up if you put it on the side stand.

I really should have someone knowledgeable look at it but I decided I wasn't going to change anything until I hit a wall and I just keep getting faster the way it is set-up now. I have a feeling now that I'm really picking up pace I'll start running into problems...everything still stock except adjustments I made and adding springs for my weight.
It's better to learn how to do setup yourself. Eventually you'll learn enough to translate feel and tire wear to make setup changes. I'm still learning but, thanks to a lot of people here, I've been able to know what changes should be made where how and when.
 

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I agree with Michael Castro at GP suspension that it's not worth the time playing with the stock big piston forks, honestly they kinda suck. I just rode another team's ZX6R in the AFM 600 races this weekend and it had stock suspension supposedly re valved by super plush, and had stiffer springs put in. I got the bike a lot better after the whole day but it never really got that good. In that video I posted on my IG you can see the front end chatter and rear bouncing in T2. I'm super happy with my Ohlins and from what I've seen the GP kits are equivalent. A few of the top 5 guys in AFM are running GP Suspension forks.

Edit: Whole saturday practice, qualifying and 3 Sunday races .... bleh. I could see them working fine through advanced group trackday pace but they will really limit you eventually
 

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Intermediate Rider Here.

Stock 13 ZX6R.

I've set up the suspension to text book sag, then made some rebound/preload adjustments based on what I was feeling while out on track. Overall I'm satisfied with the bike.

However, I am a heavier rider (230-235 No Gear). I notice the front end getting light frequently, especially corner exit which causes understeer and lowers my confidence.

I'm interested in hearing opinion on only re-springing the front and rear to better suit my weight.

Side note: I'm signing up for YCRS in 2020 which I know will help.
 
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