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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently got a used zx6r 2000 j1 and want to learn and do maintenance myself. Its got about 48k kilometers on it.

So im doing valve clearance check and now im a bit worried i have messed something up.
When taking everything apart i got carried away and removed the cam cap before i even checked the clearances. Cams started to lift with all the tension (didn't remove cct). And while fiddling with the cams the chain jumped. So i was like shit i guess i have to fix the timing. I cranked the engine to mark tdc 1/4 put the cam sprockets with the marks lined up with the engine as shown in manual. Counted 30 links/pins and tried putting the cap/cover back. It didnt want to close all the way. I tightened the screws little by little in criss cross to slowly force it down. Didnt want to force too hard so i read the manual some more while scratching my head and it dawned on me. The cct!
Anyway, so i removed the tensioner and got everything set up right. Inserted the cct teeth with 5 notches out. Tightened everything down in criss cross pattern. And the engine turns fine with no metal noise, but it feels abit heavy to turn with my 17 wrench. Not sure what its suppose to feel like tho.
So finally i get to check clearances and they are all quite more snug than they should. 2 valves in specific on the exhaust side are 0,08mm when they should be minimum 0,22mm. Then i read here you need to torque it to the exact specs with a t-wrench to get exact readings. Thats also when i find out about the importance of the tightening sequence. /facepalm.
So i undo bolts and tighten accordingly. And low and behold i get different numbers, but still in the same ballpark.
Except for one of those 0,08 readings on the ex side. Now i cant get anything under there. My smallest gage is 0,02 which is basically a god damn bible page. The other 0,08 valve is now 0,09mm with proper torqued cam cap.

Does it sound like i messed up or bent something?
Why would the clearance change that much between 2 readings?
I tried loosening the bolts abit and turning the engine a few times before buttoning it up again. Still 0 clearance on that 1 valve.
Should i just proceed and shim down a whole bunch?
I fear for my valves and seats. Maybe i should just send it off to a shop before i mess it up more...
Appreciate any guidance or info on this subject that might help.
It started and ran okay before disassembly, but im scared to put it back and start it now.
(Well theres been problems with it shutting down on the highway. But that's probably an electrical or venting issue... Thats for another thread unless someone makes a connection)

(If you're still reading im also confused about start/end of compression stroke and if it even matters when installing cams/ checking clearance)

Thanks for your time and glad i finally made a user after all this lurking on this great forum.
 

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Don't take this the wrong way but I did cringe on a few occasions reading your post and tbh the best advice now would be to take it to someone who knows what there doing before you end up with a non runner ;) your in way way over your head..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't take this the wrong way but I did cringe on a few occasions reading your post and tbh the best advice now would be to take it to someone who knows what there doing before you end up with a non runner ;) your in way way over your head..
Yikes. Thought this job was pretty straight forward, but yes i should've read the manual more thoroughly before even starting.
Still curious to hear if anyone has had similar issues and what exactly has caused the 0 clearance. Will i/the shop be in need of new parts for example?
 

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It's not uncommon to have no clearance when the Bike has been neglected with the Valve service interval at every 8,000 Miles.
Most good Techs will consider 0 clearance as 0 and replace the shim with one that will get a predicted max tolerance so if it was in fact held open slightly you end up fingers crossed in the Green zone between 0.22 & 0.31

 

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So at this point are you absolutely certain you can do it properly if you go in and remove it all and adjust the valves?

Do you own a torque wrench, a good one that reads inch lbs!!!

Do you have a micrometer to measure actual shim thicknesses?

Do you have access to a wide range of shims......... OEM shims!

and as above, as I read I kept thinking WTF is this idiot doing, besides doing it all wrong!!!


You never remove cam cap bolts or cam caps with the cam chain tensioner installed and you likewise never install the cams with it installed either!!!!!!!!!! That is the first piece removed and the last piece installed, and you install it fully retracted!!!!!!!!!!!! no teeth showing to have the push rod shoved out!!!

My bet......... all the previous idiots who owned it never did any maintenance and the valves are that tight!

I sure wouldn't start it nor drive it until you make the corrections and are positive all your work is done correctly, or some competent experienced mechaincs work is all complete and correct!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's not uncommon to have no clearance when the Bike has been neglected with the Valve service interval at every 8,000 Miles.
Most good Techs will consider 0 clearance as 0 and replace the shim with one that will get a predicted max tolerance so if it was in fact held open slightly you end up fingers crossed in the Green zone between 0.22 & 0.31

Ok fair enough.
What really worries me though is not necessarily the 0 clearance, but that it first showed 0,08. Then on the second inspection 0. That jump makes me think i might have broke something.
If i can just disregard that and shim as normally then i should be able to do it myself no? After my first half witted attempt i feel i know how to remove and install cams safely now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So at this point are you absolutely certain you can do it properly if you go in and remove it all and adjust the valves?

Do you own a torque wrench, a good one that reads inch lbs!!!

Do you have a micrometer to measure actual shim thicknesses?

Do you have access to a wide range of shims......... OEM shims!

and as above, as I read I kept thinking WTF is this idiot doing, besides doing it all wrong!!!


You never remove cam cap bolts or cam caps with the cam chain tensioner installed and you likewise never install the cams with it installed either!!!!!!!!!! That is the first piece removed and the last piece installed, and you install it fully retracted!!!!!!!!!!!! no teeth showing to have the push rod shoved out!!!

My bet......... all the previous idiots who owned it never did any maintenance and the valves are that tight!

I sure wouldn't start it nor drive it until you make the corrections and are positive all your work is done correctly, or some competent experienced mechaincs work is all complete and correct!
Yes i do believe i have learnt my lesson.
The first time i removed the cam cap my intention was only to check the valves. Not let loose the camshafts...
Thought there might be smaller separate caps under that big ol cover of a cap my bike has, as i had seen in videos. I got a a little carried away when dissembling and basically went deeper than planned. Was hoping to get a better view of the valves and lobes. (Again /facepalm).

But now i have been forced to learn camshaft installation and have studied the manual and other videos regarding this specific job.
Ive aquired a torq wrench that reads nm/inch lbs, and also a micrometer.
So if i send it to a shop and all they do is shim down than i might as well do it myself? This time im prepared! No shims yet tho, will order after i check under buckets. You recommend oem?
Anyway.
Reason i made this thread is because of that jump in valve clearance reading on that one valve. From 0,08 to 0 clearance. This freaked me out and made me think i caused a problem too great to be fixed by a simple shim job. From your replies it doesn't sound like it. This sounds normal.
I just want to be sure you understand that the first time i checked the valves, the clearance was 0,08 on that one valve. Second time after turning engine, loosening cam bolts and tightening with torq, i got 0 clearance. All other valves were only about 0,02 difference. Doesn't anybody find this odd?
Appreciate the feedback thanks guys.
 

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Yes i do believe i have learnt my lesson.
The first time i removed the cam cap my intention was only to check the valves. Not let loose the camshafts...
Thought there might be smaller separate caps under that big ol cover of a cap my bike has, as i had seen in videos. I got a a little carried away when dissembling and basically went deeper than planned. Was hoping to get a better view of the valves and lobes. (Again /facepalm).

But now i have been forced to learn camshaft installation and have studied the manual and other videos regarding this specific job.
Ive aquired a torq wrench that reads nm/inch lbs, and also a micrometer.
So if i send it to a shop and all they do is shim down than i might as well do it myself? This time im prepared! No shims yet tho, will order after i check under buckets. You recommend oem?
Anyway.
Reason i made this thread is because of that jump in valve clearance reading on that one valve. From 0,08 to 0 clearance. This freaked me out and made me think i caused a problem too great to be fixed by a simple shim job. From your replies it doesn't sound like it. This sounds normal.
I just want to be sure you understand that the first time i checked the valves, the clearance was 0,08 on that one valve. Second time after turning engine, loosening cam bolts and tightening with torq, i got 0 clearance. All other valves were only about 0,02 difference. Doesn't anybody find this odd?
Appreciate the feedback thanks guys.
ODD .......... NO- there are always a few valves or one valve of a hadnful of valves that seem to move more than the rest, so you zero clearance v .02mm clearance

and..... the one valve measuring .08mm clearance when assembled incorrectly vs .02mm when assembled correctly- nope not surprised at all

but when you actually remove the buckets to replace the shims underneath, you certainly can take a look at the valve end/retaining washer/clips etc....... but I am sure they are fine

your final test would be simple......... close the valves on that cylinder (and later each other cylinder) and simply pour some fuel down the intake, the valves should seal tightly enough to allow no fuel to actually run out of the intake port and into the combustion chamber---- you can buy the correct tool for this as well it is called a cylinder leakage tester- you do need an air compressor with atleast 120psi to do this effectively
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ODD .......... NO- there are always a few valves or one valve of a hadnful of valves that seem to move more than the rest, so you zero clearance v .02mm clearance

and..... the one valve measuring .08mm clearance when assembled incorrectly vs .02mm when assembled correctly- nope not surprised at all

but when you actually remove the buckets to replace the shims underneath, you certainly can take a look at the valve end/retaining washer/clips etc....... but I am sure they are fine

your final test would be simple......... close the valves on that cylinder (and later each other cylinder) and simply pour some fuel down the intake, the valves should seal tightly enough to allow no fuel to actually run out of the intake port and into the combustion chamber---- you can buy the correct tool for this as well it is called a cylinder leakage tester- you do need an air compressor with atleast 120psi to do this effectively
Thanks for replying.
Seems like either its nothing to worry about or just that I'm not explaining this well.
The reading was not first .08 then .02

Il give you some of the numbers to help clarify what exactly im finding odd.
Lets look at 4 valve clearances on the exhaust side and how they vary when torqued properly or not.
first inspection:
Cylinder 3: L .08 R .14
Cylinder 4 L .08 R .12

Second inspection with proper torq:
Cylinder 3: L 0 R .15
Cylinder 4: L .09 R .14

Notice how all the numbers change slightly with about .01 or .02mm. Except for L-cylinder-3 which dropped from .08 to 0.
That's what stunned me. Is that not a big drop compared to the others?
Maybe im just paranoid and i hope so.
Anyways i appreciate you listening to my rambling.
Thanks for the leakage tip. A car mechanic friend mentioned something similar. Not familiar with it though. This can be done without any special tools right? You mentioned a "cylinder leakage tester", but that is only if i want to get fancy with it? I don't have an air compressor either.

Again thanks a lot for the feedback!
 

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Adjust properly from where you are and then double check the work....

Had you bent a valve at all, you would measure more clearance not less
 
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