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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
What's Up Y'all,

New to the forum here. Been riding for a pretty good while. Have done most of the work needed to my bike(s) myself. I'd say I'm pretty good at working with the stuff. Enjoy it too. Just a hobby ya know..

Anyhow - the weirdest thing is goin on with my bike. Does anyone know what is going on/ have any ideas here?? It is pretty unique I would say, this situation, although maybe it's more common than I may know of. I wrote out the details below. Thanks for reading through, since it is sort of long, but I wanted to fill in all the details as best I could. The community here Rocks.
p.s. the bike is totally ridable right now, especially on back roads where it's not being opened up into 5th and/ or sixth gear. But it's not running tip-top right now. Check it out...

So the bike is a 2k12 Zx6r. 27k-ish miles on it. Got it with, 11k? Year and a half ago about. I ride a pretty good bit. Maybe I should slow up my miles a little bit to avoid this stuff more frequently in the future... Nah Nevermind. FuckThat. HAHAH.

I just replaced my charging system actually (did the work myself), because my bike died on me in the middle of a dark back road HAHAHA. Luckily, it juiced itself up sitting for an hour or so somehow, and I was able to get it home, 10 minutes away.
---I replaced the battery, the regulator, and put in an oem stator. Totally fixed the charging system issue. Headlights, dash, all that, the electric system is rockin freshh. I am so happy..

BUT...

Prior to the stator component failure [and afterwards :( ] it appears the bike has lost a bit of power. It seems to be mostly on the upper end, and even mostly in the upper gears as well. I mentioned 5th & 6th gears above, but actually, it seems like sometimes my 4th gear gets shitty on me too. Now when I say shitty, it appears to me that the power loss (when it's acting up bad) is in the range of -10-15% in terms of Thrust (on a bad "run"). When I say "run" I just mean a run up through the gears, with a heavy(ish) throttle, when I'm trying to really get it (Like we all do hehehe). To add to this, since this issue began, unfortunately until tonight (outlined below), I have had trouble getting the bike up over 130mph. It's like stuck there??? I try shifting around some gears to get it over, but it's just like tapped?? p.s. this inability to hit over 130mph is NEW, probably about a month (maybe)before the stator component failure (which was on 10.11.2021). Somehow though, I have this feeling that the two may not really be related? When the stator failed, it definitely was lacking even more power than it is now, but since I replaced it, that power is undoubtedly back, but still it is not tip-top. We will call this Issue B, and again, this issue is New.

So generally also, (currently with issue present) when I hit the throttle, first - third gear appear okay. Sometimes, in my 10-12k RPM range though, it's almost like some power gets left behind. We'll call this the "Power Drag". Now unfortunately, I have noticed this minor Power Drag to an extent at times before all of this stator issue stuff, but I just sort of kept my bike out of that RPM range when it was acting up and this has worked well and the power has been strong otherwise. It seems like this power drag may be a little worse now though. It's like - imagine if the engine power was delivered via a drivetrain belt, it's almost like at times the "belt" is "slipping", the power isn't quite there. That's how it feels to the end user (me). The engine sound, all that though, sounds amazing still. I don't/ and didn't really think it was the engine tbh, especially after tonight.. We will call this Issue A (since this issue was present first), and this issue (minor) unfortunately has been present starting a bit before issue B. Maybe even a little last year. I do think, for some reason, that Issues A & B may be related, and that Issue B may actually be a developed version of sorts from Issue A.

So to sum the two issues (which may be related), we have:
Issue B - The inability to hit over 130mph
Issue A - The minor Power Drag in the 10-12k RPM range (which appears to have gotten worse lately, leading to Issue A). This issue is present mostly in upper gears too, but also does span across all gears when acting up.

Now the good news: I have been riding still, and I've just been you know, takin it easy, hittin some back roads, still gettin my rides in. So that is all good. Sometimes the power feels pretty good, but still not really where it should be IMO.. But Tonight!! I have just found out (well confirmed) that The Power still at least Lives within my Bike without a Doubt!! HAHAHA!!! This is an amazing feeling, because up until now, I thought maybe my bike was toast to an extent, and that I was going to be stuck with a reduction in power at certain speeds/ Revs.

So tonight.. I was ripping down the road (wide-open road), it was feeling pretty good, but then I slowed up a bit, I shifted down into first. I think I was going about 50-55MPH when I did so. I was not expecting this really. Now when it hit down into first, I felt this sudden burst. I instantly knew that for whatever reason, at this current time, 100% of my bike's power was present. I hammered on this joint (like I always do hehe), and this Bitch - Took.Off. I mean like Idek if I have felt this much power out of this bike before.. I'm not even kidding. The pull was so strong, the front end was trying to come up it felt like through third gear, and I was leaning forward, tucked in. BTW I'm 195 lbs. That (even minor) Power Drag I mentioned above (Issue A), wasn't even present here during this. Didn't miss a beat. It was amazing. Either way, that was max power, I know it. And that is how I'm trying to get it to be all the time. I was so happy. But what was even better, was that I shifted into second, into third, into fourth, and all the way up to fifth on this run, and this Power was pulling so strong - I instantly knew that my bike was still "fully good" if you know what I mean, and that it may definitely be within reach to ignite that Power to come back, and be present all the time. On this run described above, I Scorched Over the 130MPH mark that seemed to be the limit before (since Issue B began), without even a hesitation. If I hadn't started running out of road, I literally am willing to bet a few dollars that I may have gotten my bike to top out at its normal top speed.

So, weird right? But does anyone know of what is going on here? Or have any ideas?? I have gathered a few ideas from some research that may*** resolve this issue, but I don't want to mention yet because I want to hear what you all have to say!!!


Thanks so much & STAY SAFEE!!!!
馃憡馃

Helll Yesss!!!
 

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Sounds like u might have a fuel issue. Make sure the fuel filter is clean. Make sure the pump is putting out enough pressure. Are all your injectors clean? What about secondary injectors?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Scorpi0 thanks :D ... inteResting cause fuel is what I heard before too. To answer, I have no idea. I haven't looked into this yet. But let's see, so:

1.) The fuel filter is located within the fuel pump, and I can clean the fuel filter without replacing the fuel pump right?
2.) How can I test if pump is putting out enough pressure? What if it's not?
3.) How can I clean injectors? They are separate from fuel filter yes? Then there are secondary?

Hell yeah
 

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Yes the fuel filter is basically a sock/screen thats built onto the fuel pump. Just make sure its clean and not covered in crap.

For the pump prssure, u can use a fuel pressure gauge or tester. What I usually do is disconnect the fuel line and point it away from you. Crank the engine and if it sprays fuel out to about 10 feet, then its probably good.

For the Injectors, they sell bottles of 鈥渇uel injector cleaner鈥 at any auto parts store. U just mix it with your fuel and its supposed to clean the injectors as the fuel flows thru the system when youre riding. There are other and probably better methods of cleaning fuel injectors but they require a bit more work. Just youtube 鈥渉ow to clean fuel injectors鈥 and tou should get a bunch of videos.

Your main injectors are located inside the throttle bodies. The secondary injectors are located in the airbox and only come on at 8000 rpm and above.
 

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I'd love to hit 130MPG. I could wave my middle-finger at all the 50cc scooter riders...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Scorpi0.. thanks, check it out below.
Some Q's on your pointers. This is good stuff.


Yes the fuel filter is basically a sock/screen thats built onto the fuel pump. Just make sure its clean and not covered in crap.

So what I am getting is that it's like a sock that covers the fuel pump? Do I have to take actual fuel pump apart, to get to/remove the sock-like filter? Also, can I lift gastank, and get to work on this if there is still some fuel in my tank, will it leak all over the place, or should it be good?

For the pump prssure, u can use a fuel pressure gauge or tester. What I usually do is disconnect the fuel line and point it away from you. Crank the engine and if it sprays fuel out to about 10 feet, then its probably good.

HAHAHA this is ghetto af and awesome. So I am guessing this fuel line you are referring to is coming out of the fuel pump (i.e. has already gone through the fuel pump), so if it's spraying out hard (10ft) then we are looking good on pressure? If this all sounds about right (as far as my understanding), then my guess is that if I were to check this right now, without doing any filter cleaning, it would probably be a weak pressure. Do you think so too, based on what we've said so far?

Also, when you say "what you usually do..." do you work on these units here, or is this for your personal?


For the Injectors, they sell bottles of 鈥渇uel injector cleaner鈥 at any auto parts store. U just mix it with your fuel and its supposed to clean the injectors as the fuel flows thru the system when youre riding. There are other and probably better methods of cleaning fuel injectors but they require a bit more work. Just youtube 鈥渉ow to clean fuel injectors鈥 and tou should get a bunch of videos.

If you had to guess, would you think my dampened power is due more to the filter or injectors? Are there side-effects of the fuel injector cleaner that you know of?

Your main injectors are located inside the throttle bodies. The secondary injectors are located in the airbox and only come on at 8000 rpm and above.

Are these hard to access (the primary injectors inside the throttle bodies, and secondary injectors inside the airbox) for our purposes of cleaning out injectors if it comes down to that?


Scorpi0 these responses are the shit. 鈿♀湪
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Btw is it running on stock ECU or do u have some kinda power commander on the bike?

And I am not sure on this one.. I've never had to check actually. Is there a way I can verify? Or maybe it's something I would know if I had one.
Thanks,
 

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Scorpi0.. thanks, check it out below.
Some Q's on your pointers. This is good stuff.


Yes the fuel filter is basically a sock/screen thats built onto the fuel pump. Just make sure its clean and not covered in crap.

So what I am getting is that it's like a sock that covers the fuel pump? Do I have to take actual fuel pump apart, to get to/remove the sock-like filter? Also, can I lift gastank, and get to work on this if there is still some fuel in my tank, will it leak all over the place, or should it be good?

For the pump prssure, u can use a fuel pressure gauge or tester. What I usually do is disconnect the fuel line and point it away from you. Crank the engine and if it sprays fuel out to about 10 feet, then its probably good.

HAHAHA this is ghetto af and awesome. So I am guessing this fuel line you are referring to is coming out of the fuel pump (i.e. has already gone through the fuel pump), so if it's spraying out hard (10ft) then we are looking good on pressure? If this all sounds about right (as far as my understanding), then my guess is that if I were to check this right now, without doing any filter cleaning, it would probably be a weak pressure. Do you think so too, based on what we've said so far?

Also, when you say "what you usually do..." do you work on these units here, or is this for your personal?


For the Injectors, they sell bottles of 鈥渇uel injector cleaner鈥 at any auto parts store. U just mix it with your fuel and its supposed to clean the injectors as the fuel flows thru the system when youre riding. There are other and probably better methods of cleaning fuel injectors but they require a bit more work. Just youtube 鈥渉ow to clean fuel injectors鈥 and tou should get a bunch of videos.

If you had to guess, would you think my dampened power is due more to the filter or injectors? Are there side-effects of the fuel injector cleaner that you know of?

Your main injectors are located inside the throttle bodies. The secondary injectors are located in the airbox and only come on at 8000 rpm and above.

Are these hard to access (the primary injectors inside the throttle bodies, and secondary injectors inside the airbox) for our purposes of cleaning out injectors if it comes down to that?


Scorpi0 these responses are the shit. 鈿♀湪
I would empty out the whole tank if youre gonna remove the pump. Its not that difficult and will make the process much easier and cleaner. The filter is just a screen thats attached to the pump inlet. Heres a video of someone taking theirs apart:

But yeah, if its shooting fuel out pretty good then its probably not the filter thats the issue. I would lean more towards an issue with the injectors. I dont think u should have any issue with the fuel injector cleaner as long as u use it like the directions state.

The secondary injectors are pretty easy to get to. The primaries arent that bad either but just a little bit more work. But since your problem is intermittent, its probably gonna be a little more difficult trying to figure it out.

I know all this stuff from working on my own bike and Ive been reading a lot of great info on this forum for the past 10 years lol. I actually work as a mechanic so it helps in troubleshooting and figuring things out. And Im a giggolo on the weekends 馃榿
 

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Btw is it running on stock ECU or do u have some kinda power commander on the bike?

And I am not sure on this one.. I've never had to check actually. Is there a way I can verify? Or maybe it's something I would know if I had one.
Thanks,
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You will see some wires and a box that looks like this鈥sually installed under the seat somewhere.
 

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Have your valve clearances been checked? What about all the other routine maintenance? Spark plugs replaced etc? @Scorpi0 has covered the fuel issues pretty well - love his "just point it away from you and if the fuel sprays out 10 feet its good" :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would empty out the whole tank if youre gonna remove the pump. Its not that difficult and will make the process much easier and cleaner. The filter is just a screen thats attached to the pump inlet. Heres a video of someone taking theirs apart:

But yeah, if its shooting fuel out pretty good then its probably not the filter thats the issue. I would lean more towards an issue with the injectors. I dont think u should have any issue with the fuel injector cleaner as long as u use it like the directions state.

The secondary injectors are pretty easy to get to. The primaries arent that bad either but just a little bit more work. But since your problem is intermittent, its probably gonna be a little more difficult trying to figure it out.

I know all this stuff from working on my own bike and Ive been reading a lot of great info on this forum for the past 10 years lol. I actually work as a mechanic so it helps in troubleshooting and figuring things out. And Im a giggolo on the weekends 馃榿

@Scorpi0 .. still good stuff boss.. I watched that video earlier today, then just watched it back again just now. Found another too with a guy taking apart his 08.. apparently basically identical pumps, if not fully identical to the one in mine. I have a feeling this is really gonna help. I kinda cant wait hahah. I guess if this sorts the ish, then really no need to get into injectors you think? Is it worth it anyways to further boost performance? Dont wanna break anything either though lol.

p.s. my bike was painted, I've found out that apparently this could play a role in the dirtying of the filter, residuals from the paint etc that develop after doing so. Plus I have this pop-top type gas cap. If I wheelie too high after filling it up, you can see a drip run down the side of the tank from the cap. Nbd but I'm wondering if this is letting anything in. Wonder if I should look into this to prevent this from happening again. Aside from pump, I hope that if the filter gets dirty for whatever reason (like mine likely is right now), this doesn't also lead to injectors issues (dirtying). But again, I'm hoping the fuel pump screen and clean takes care of this. I have a good feeling tbh.

I'm wondering if injectors just need cleaning once in a while too. I am thinking for some reason, that this problem may be do more to the pump and filter, hopefully I'm right. If not, first step on the injectors would be the cleaner.

I've been reading up on here too for a pretty good while, not that long though. That is awesome man yeah this site is full of seriously good information. It really is..

Yeah @Scorpi0 .. this is seriously good stuff here boss you are sending out. That's no kidding. This is taking basically all the stress out of this. Hopefully I can check this out this weekend. I'm trying to get back with some real good results so you can see the difference you're makin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
View attachment 109575


You will see some wires and a box that looks like this鈥sually installed under the seat somewhere.
And I checked.. looks like there's no Power Commander in there. Guess thats the stock ECU then.. are these power commanders worth it? Are there any notable cons? Also, were you just asking this to rule out any possibility of a faulty power commander?
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Here's an underseat pic.. hopefully not too close up. I tried to post a little vid too but it wouldn't let me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Have your valve clearances been checked? What about all the other routine maintenance? Spark plugs replaced etc? @Scorpi0 has covered the fuel issues pretty well - love his "just point it away from you and if the fuel sprays out 10 feet its good" :)
I haven't checked my valves but have seen that's fairly routine.. nor have I needed sparks (at least that I've knew of). Are there any details that have you pointing at the valves and/ or spark plugs?
And I know.. thats honestly probably the best way to tell hahah.
Thanks @PhotoAl
 

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@Scorpi0 .. still good stuff boss.. I watched that video earlier today, then just watched it back again just now. Found another too with a guy taking apart his 08.. apparently basically identical pumps, if not fully identical to the one in mine. I have a feeling this is really gonna help. I kinda cant wait hahah. I guess if this sorts the ish, then really no need to get into injectors you think? Is it worth it anyways to further boost performance? Dont wanna break anything either though lol.

p.s. my bike was painted, I've found out that apparently this could play a role in the dirtying of the filter, residuals from the paint etc that develop after doing so. Plus I have this pop-top type gas cap. If I wheelie too high after filling it up, you can see a drip run down the side of the tank from the cap. Nbd but I'm wondering if this is letting anything in. Wonder if I should look into this to prevent this from happening again. Aside from pump, I hope that if the filter gets dirty for whatever reason (like mine likely is right now), this doesn't also lead to injectors issues (dirtying). But again, I'm hoping the fuel pump screen and clean takes care of this. I have a good feeling tbh.

I'm wondering if injectors just need cleaning once in a while too. I am thinking for some reason, that this problem may be do more to the pump and filter, hopefully I'm right. If not, first step on the injectors would be the cleaner.

I've been reading up on here too for a pretty good while, not that long though. That is awesome man yeah this site is full of seriously good information. It really is..

Yeah @Scorpi0 .. this is seriously good stuff here boss you are sending out. That's no kidding. This is taking basically all the stress out of this. Hopefully I can check this out this weekend. I'm trying to get back with some real good results so you can see the difference you're makin.
If the fuel filter fixes the issue then I wouldnt mess with the injectors. I hope thats the issue cause its probably the quickest fix.
 

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And I checked.. looks like there's no Power Commander in there. Guess thats the stock ECU then.. are these power commanders worth it? Are there any notable cons? Also, were you just asking this to rule out any possibility of a faulty power commander?
View attachment 109578

Here's an underseat pic.. hopefully not too close up. I tried to post a little vid too but it wouldn't let me.
Yeah all your stuff looks original. I was asking about the power commander because it has happened before to a few people where their fuel map gets corrupted or the unit itself starts messing up. I dont have one on my bike鈥.never had. I only ride streets and my bike already has plenty of power for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah all your stuff looks original. I was asking about the power commander because it has happened before to a few people where their fuel map gets corrupted or the unit itself starts messing up. I dont have one on my bike鈥.never had. I only ride streets and my bike already has plenty of power for me.
Yeah I've never had the urge to mess with trying to increase power on mine.. except of course issue above but thats a special case. I'll keep you posted on the screen and results. Man I hope this knocks the issue clear out..
 
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