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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi guys, may be a wrong section, but I need an advice in scope of racing.
I'm buying a fuel management module for my track bike, so I also decided to invest in a full exhaust.
Currently I'm looking towards M4 system, I like the price, performance and the subtle look (because I hope it'll took least amount of damage among other in case of crash.)

While searching, I had a look at Titanium systems, and I can't understand if they are really so much better according to their price or it's just for those who like to pay for a nice blue color.
Of course I understand that titanium is expensive and much lighter, but if we compare m4-gp steel and titanium slipons, we'll see that the price differece is less than $70, and since SS slipon's weigh is about 6-8lbs, I don't care if it'll be 1 lbs lighter. But when it comes to the tubing, we see that titanium headers cost at least $500-$700 more than SS, and still I can't find any real weight numbers, other than Yoshi's shipping weight on amazon (56 lbs vs 19 lbs with packaging of course).
So my questions are:

Do somebody know a weight of the SS headers?
Is there really so much weight difference to be it so expensive?
Do you really feel the difference in handling and flicking the bike (keeping in mind that we reduce the weight in point of low center of gravity)?

Currently I have 2011 zx6r with m4 slipon
 

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From what I gather, the difference in weight between a ti and ss system is about a pound or two, though the ss will likely be more durable over the long haul. The difference in power is less attributed to the material as it is to the bend and size of the tubing.
 

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First M4 header will not fit the slip on, it is meant to go with the the can for the full system only.

To me the difference in weight isn't worth the difference in price, A full system in ss is maybe 1-3 lbs difference that of ti if you are comparing the same manufacturer.

Your comparisons are a little confusing as you are looking for a full system but basing your decision on slip on weights, I would suggest comparing full system to full system the weights are out there just do some research.

There are many cheaper and more effective ways to eliminate weight from the bike.


If you are intent on using the M4 gp slip on your only real option without doing major modification would be just gut the stock header, or buy a full system.
 

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First M4 header will not fit the slip on, it is meant to go with the the can for the full system only.

To me the difference in weight isn't worth the difference in price, A full system in ss is maybe 1-3 lbs difference that of ti if you are comparing the same manufacturer.

Your comparisons are a little confusing as you are looking for a full system but basing your decision on slip on weights, I would suggest comparing full system to full system the weights are out there just do some research.

There are many cheaper and more effective ways to eliminate weight from the bike.


If you are intent on using the M4 gp slip on your only real option without doing major modification would be just gut the stock header, or buy a full system.
Look at this guy with the Agg racing stuff....
 

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Look at this guy with the Agg racing stuff....
Haha from my time over on the R6 forum, Agg is a good dude man.

I thought I recognized your name from over there, what happened to the R6, you decide to come slum it with us over here now?
 

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Haha from my time over on the R6 forum, Agg is a good dude man.

I thought I recognized your name from over there, what happened to the R6, you decide to come slum it with us over here now?
No, Im still over there. I dont even have my R6 anymore, swapped it for the 848 NH. We do have two 636s though, so why not... And one of them is getting a full superbike build right now..... but on the more moderate side.
 

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Yesss as you mention the 848 I remember exactly.

I think you need to start a thread on the superbike build, I always love a good build thread.
 

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Yesss as you mention the 848 I remember exactly.

I think you need to start a thread on the superbike build, I always love a good build thread.
I actually have one on the r6 forum.... I just joined over here... I will do a build thread here at some point.... We're shooting for low 9s/high 8s and maybe doing Bonneville this year....
 

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I actually have one on the r6 forum.... I just joined over here... I will do a build thread here at some point.... We're shooting for low 9s/high 8s and maybe doing Bonneville this year....

Ok cool I haven't been on there in awhile, but I did think about throwing a build thread in there as well, just didn't want to piss people off with a Kawi thread, but that crowd does appreciate a good build thread.
 

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Ok cool I haven't been on there in awhile, but I did think about throwing a build thread in there as well, just didn't want to piss people off with a Kawi thread, but that crowd does appreciate a good build thread.
Yeah, its become overly whiny lately over there though... So many fuckin crybabies.... And the content has taken a turn for the worse. I figured this would be a good change of pace... Some new faces...
 

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Yeah, its become overly whiny lately over there though... So many fuckin crybabies.... And the content has taken a turn for the worse. I figured this would be a good change of pace... Some new faces...
Change is good my friend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
First M4 header will not fit the slip on, it is meant to go with the the can for the full system only.

To me the difference in weight isn't worth the difference in price, A full system in ss is maybe 1-3 lbs difference that of ti if you are comparing the same manufacturer.

Your comparisons are a little confusing as you are looking for a full system but basing your decision on slip on weights, I would suggest comparing full system to full system the weights are out there just do some research.

There are many cheaper and more effective ways to eliminate weight from the bike.

If you are intent on using the M4 gp slip on your only real option without doing major modification would be just gut the stock header, or buy a full system.
Many thanks for the input, now I see why there is no headers on sale, didn't think of it in that way. Anyway I was going to buy a full system and sell my current slipon to a slower friend :bigsmile:
I think can live with several lbs more, I'll better spend these money on tires and buy some lightweight battery instead.
Also just had a look at a pic of graves exhaust and realized that i might be wrong of crash-protecting capabilities of m4, since it will definately transfer a hit to the swingarm. May be it'll be cheaper to change a slipon, either than risk swinarm's geometry, what do you think?
 

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PM me.
I can probably help you out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
And is there any notable difference between brands?
I see many people use Leo Vince since it's a support vendor as Yoshi for Suzuki, but are there real benefits to the ens users from that?
Most dynos I seen add 8-9 hp, but do they tune the AFR for this result or they make these graphs just after a swap?

I will probably use Z-AFM
 

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And is there any notable difference between brands?
I see many people use Leo Vince since it's a support vendor as Yoshi for Suzuki, but are there real benefits to the ens users from that?
Most dynos I seen add 8-9 hp, but do they tune the AFR for this result or they make these graphs just after a swap?

I will probably use Z-AFM
They tune. I would be AMAZED at a legit 8-9 hp on a legit dyno from an exhaust only swap on a 600
 

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And is there any notable difference between brands?
I see many people use Leo Vince since it's a support vendor as Yoshi for Suzuki, but are there real benefits to the ens users from that?
Most dynos I seen add 8-9 hp, but do they tune the AFR for this result or they make these graphs just after a swap?

I will probably use Z-AFM
Funny enough Mahi Racing WSS Kawi team just switched to Arrow guess the Leo contract ran out, that being said I don't think you can wrong with a full system from any of the higher level exhausts, Akra, Leo, Arrow, etc

They tune. I would be AMAZED at a legit 8-9 hp on a legit dyno from an exhaust only swap on a 600
This +1 I saw a 9hp gain with a gutted header but that was only after the custom tune.
 

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And you need to be less concerned about peak hp gains. Thats bullshit that companies use to sell pipes. You want lighter, durable, larger tubing that promotes solid gains throughout the powerband and delivers a smooth, linear power curve. Ill take 5 everywhere over some bullshit 8hp gain at 14k but nothing anywhere else.
 

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And you need to be less concerned about peak hp gains. Thats bullshit that companies use to sell pipes. You want lighter, durable, larger tubing that promotes solid gains throughout the powerband and delivers a smooth, linear power curve. Ill take 5 everywhere over some bullshit 8hp gain at 14k but nothing anywhere else.
Yup - we use the Leo Vici supersport pipes on ours, full Titanium system, dont know how much it adds with just the pipe as to get it to work you have to use a Bazzaz or PC fuel module. the Leo vici is a full length pipe for the very reason above and is tapered from the header out, amazing piece of work.

Shame they have gone bust!! luckily we cleared out the remaining stock :)

I do know that on two strokes ( and lets face it these 600,s work very close to two stroke values at above 12K RPM) you gain with a correctly designed Titanium system because it resonates at a higher frequency than steel (it also has a springier nature which returns a better pulse wave), so when you are buzzin the top end it tends to help the engine hold the peak power.
 

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Yup - we use the Leo Vici supersport pipes on ours, full Titanium system, dont know how much it adds with just the pipe as to get it to work you have to use a Bazzaz or PC fuel module. the Leo vici is a full length pipe for the very reason above and is tapered from the header out, amazing piece of work.

Shame they have gone bust!! luckily we cleared out the remaining stock :)

I do know that on two strokes ( and lets face it these 600,s work very close to two stroke values at above 12K RPM) you gain with a correctly designed Titanium system because it resonates at a higher frequency than steel (it also has a springier nature which returns a better pulse wave), so when you are buzzin the top end it tends to help the engine hold the peak power.
Agree with all of this. Supposedly the typical "works" pipes for MX bikes (the actual factory bikes, not the privateers or factory supported) used to use thinner wall thickness tubing to promote the resonation you mention, as it was good for horsepower and scavenging of exhaust. All those old hand sectioned, hand welded pipes back in the day, especially at Honda, leads me to believe there is something to all of that.

I didnt hear that Leo Vinci had gone bust or whatever though..... Did I misread that? If not, where did you hear that?
 
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