[Guzziman65]

Hi all,
I'm pretty sure that I have fried my reg/rec. Can anyone out there provide me with an idiot's guide on how to test it? I can't even make sense of the guidance in the Haynes Manual so please make it simple. I have sat nav and Keis heated gloves wired up to the battery. I suspect that the heated gloves are causing the problems. Has anyone else experienced problems with these? I have had the stator rewound, replaced the battery and fitted a new (cheap pattern) reg/rec which worked for a while but now as soon as lights etc are turned on bike loses its charge. I just want to understand how to test the reg/rec for future reference. Cheers:coocoo

 

[RJ2112]

It may be that the charging system simply cannot provide enough juice for your gloves.

BMW touring rigs, they typically supply a few hundred Watts extra, for all the gizmos you could buy at the dealership. Same with Gold Wings.

Most sport bikes have the smallest/lightest alternators that can support their need in racing configuration. Not very many Watts excess available for use by the operator.

You should generally consider reducing the load somewhere, if you want to add to the demand.

The shop manual you can get here, should provide directions on troubleshooting the charging system.

From the Alternator, you should be getting > 52 VAC in between each pair (all three) of windings... 70+ is better.

After that goes through the rectifier and is turned into VDC, the voltage should be 14+ VDC, with the regulator limiting the upper end to ~14.4 VDC. You should see that at the battery terminals.

This is not a perfect answer to your real question, which is how much work can you take from the alternator before you start starving the battery? That has to be measured in Amperes, and you have to put your meter in series with the battery so you can see the current flow.

 

[Guzziman65]

Thanks for that. Keis market an independent battery pack which I think I will invest in. Unfortunately I really need heated gloves as I suffer from bad circulation otherwise I would just go without but I need them for 9 months out of 12...

 

[RJ2112]

I have recently discovered the joy of heated gloves..... worth their weight in gold, I say.

If you know the wattage of the gloves at max (probably less than 50 Watts), you could reduce the demand on the charging system by going to LED marker lights, as well as the tail light.... that should make something like 30 Watts available. If you have modified the lighting system, go back to illuminating one element on low beam. Any extra current draws which were not part of the initial design should be set up so you can turn them off, when/if you need to.

 

[Guzziman65]

Thanks, I will investigate the LED lighting.

 

[RJ2112]

Thanks, I will investigate the LED lighting.

I would check the system to see if you are in fact at a deficit.... that would take inserting your ammeter (set in DC A') in line with one of the battery leads, so you could see if current is flowing into the battery. Doesn't matter if it's + or -, current has to flow on both sides..... it just matters as whether you'd see a positive or negative value.

If you set it up so you see a positive number when there is current going to your battery you would see a negative number when it is being depleted.

Zero is not a bad thing; it would mean the battery is completely charged and the system is reducing the current flow as expected.

Once you wire in the meter, unplug your headlights, then start the bike. Check to see if you have a negative or positive number... starting the bike will draw the battery down some, so the alternator/rectifier/regulator would have to put current in.

Start the bike, and see if the number is positive at idle.
With the bike running, plug in the headlamps. Did the number stay positive?
If not, rev up the bike to 2-3K RPM. Did the number go positive?

 

[Guzziman65]

Ok, so reg/rec was fried. I have replaced and have been told that the gloves are just too much for the charging system. In view of this and given that the system itself is doing what it should do (alternator, reg/rec and battery all in as new condition); should I replace the battery with a better one? Is there an Odyssey or equivalent that will do the job on a 2000 J1?
If I can find a battery that produces more charge and holds it more efficiently it should help. I have discovered that my particular heated gloves are not suitable for use with an independent battery...

 

[RJ2112]

Ok, so reg/rec was fried. I have replaced and have been told that the gloves are just too much for the charging system. In view of this and given that the system itself is doing what it should do (alternator, reg/rec and battery all in as new condition); should I replace the battery with a better one? Is there an Odyssey or equivalent that will do the job on a 2000 J1?
If I can find a battery that produces more charge and holds it more efficiently it should help. I have discovered that my particular heated gloves are not suitable for use with an independent battery...

A battery with more capacity will take longer to discharge.... that doesn't mean the charging system will become stronger. It simply means you can run at a deficit for a longer period of time before everything goes tango uniform (t*ts up). (the pool behind the dam will take longer to go dry)

The only way you are going to effectively use those gloves with that bike is to reduce the demand on the electrical system somewhere else.

How many Watts do your gloves use? What brand are they? Why can't they be run off an independent 12V MC battery?

Your charging system cannot keep up.... so why not use a trickle charger at home to charge up another battery to run the gloves? Keep the thing in a tank bag and wire it up so it has a plug just for the gloves.

 

[Guzziman65]

I was afraid you were going to say something like that... I like your idea of using an independent battery though. If I can find one that's small enough I could locate under the seat. They are Keis X800 gloves and, on checking the website are not suitable for use with their 12 LiOn battery as it would discharge very quickly. Doh! I have emailed Keis asking for a solution in the hope that they will offer me their X800i gloves which are suitable for use with an independent battery. Cheers for that.

 

[RJ2112]

I was afraid you were going to say something like that... I like your idea of using an independent battery though. If I can find one that's small enough I could locate under the seat. They are Keis X800 gloves and, on checking the website are not suitable for use with their 12 LiOn battery as it would discharge very quickly. Doh! I have emailed Keis asking for a solution in the hope that they will offer me their X800i gloves which are suitable for use with an independent battery. Cheers for that.

I just looked at their website --

'Flexible 12v Dual-Power for use anywhere anytime. Current Draw 2.0A, typical Power 24W'

You should be able to support 24W draw with the charging system the bike has, now. (unless their claim of 'typcial power' is completely wrong) What other aftermarket attachments are there, on your bike?

My Sedici Hotwired gloves have very similar power useage, and have posed no problems to date. I have used them for 2 winters, now, probably 30-50 rides of more than an hour without issue.

If it's all OEM, with the exception of the gloves (no HIDs, etc.,) there is something not right with your bike's wiring. high resistance in connections will increase the amount of power it takes to drive the lights, blinkers, what have you. If any of your connections look melted, this is what's causing your electrical issues.

 

[Guzziman65]

I have a Garmin sat nav but that is rarely used. The gloves are usually the only things used.

 

[RJ2112]

I have a Garmin sat nav but that is rarely used. The gloves are usually the only things used.

Take a look at your wiring.... look for any powdery deposits inside the connectors. Particularly the multipin unsealed ones. (Headlights, turnsignals, reg/rec, battery, fuse boxes) If you see anything other than shiny brass color, there's junk on the contacts that has resistance.

When the male and female pins are pushed together, there's usually a dimple on one that scratches the surface of the other contact to make a clean electrical connection. Over years of exposure to the elements, water will enventually find it's way in there, and cause corrosion.

It's usually enough to pull the connectors apart, then re-plug them. That makes the dimple wipe off another spot to restore the connection. If you go through the wiring and take each one apart, you are likely to solve a lot of gremlins......

When/if you decide to give this a go, make sure you have a tube of Dielectric grease handy. Flood each connector before you mate the pins. The grease won't let any air or moisture into the pins to cause any more corrosion. It doesn't conduct electricity, so you are relying only on the point contacts that are what are supposed to be completing the circuit.

 

[Guzziman65]

Thanks RJ I will do this and let you know.