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Discussion Starter #41
OK, all you xenophobic fellow ZX riders out there in the virtual globe; OK, hold your right hand up if you think the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indonesians, Malaysians, etc, (include all Asian, & Southasians) make cheap crappy stuff.

OK, now if you own a Accura, Honda, Infinity, Lexus, Nissan, Subaru, or Toyota automobile put your hand up.

If you own a lawn mower, edger, leaf blower, snow blower, or other electronical/gas powered lawn equipment put your hand up.

If you own any other Japanese scooter, 4-wheeler, or other motorcycle, put your hand up.

Those of you with any Apple products... any Apple product put you hand up.

Who out there has boosted their car/truck stereo? Put your hand up.

Now, those of you that "Just Do It"; socks, shirts, work out gear, casual Nike clothing, golf bag, cleats, jock, swim suit, etc... you can put your hands up

Oh, yeah, who out there has a computer? You stick your hands up.

I'm getting tired.

By now my overwhelming redundancy has made its point. Homo sapiens can make stuff, any kind of stuff of stunning quality. They can also make unadulterated bile stench crap. No continent, or country has a lock on either extreme. To think so is unmitigated idiocy. No exceptions.

Get real; I'm such an old codger, that I can remember my dad telling me, "... if a diamond cost you a dollar, then it's not even worth a dollar....." And he was speaking of stuff made in the good ole U.S.of A. Buyer beware.
Ok...so you're saying anything can happen. Great. Although true, not really helpful. Stereotypes do come from somewhere after all. There is a reason a lot of people don't buy Chinese stuff, why they don't trust Chinese stuff, and why it's so much cheaper than other stuff. Sure not EVERYTHING made there is crap, as I mentioned in my comments above, but a lot of it is. And that's where the stereotypes come from. This is a "chance" game. You have a much higher chance of getting junk if it's made and designed in china (by a chinese company, not under a different name), than you do if it's made in other places like western Europe, Scandinavia, US, Canada, etc.
 

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I think it's more 'Cheap Chinese stuff is not necessarily better than the expensive version of the same thing'.

As you said, your nice A* gloves are made in China. Thus, it's not China that's the problem, it's cheap.

We just use 'China' casually as a stand in for 'cheap things you find on eBay that were inexpensively mass produced and sold at below market values for similar components'.
 

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Ok...so you're saying anything can happen. Great. Although true, not really helpful. Stereotypes do come from somewhere after all. There is a reason a lot of people don't buy Chinese stuff, why they don't trust Chinese stuff, and why it's so much cheaper than other stuff. Sure not EVERYTHING made there is crap, as I mentioned in my comments above, but a lot of it is. And that's where the stereotypes come from. This is a "chance" game. You have a much higher chance of getting junk if it's made and designed in china (by a chinese company, not under a different name), than you do if it's made in other places like western Europe, Scandinavia, US, Canada, etc.
Warning: contains some mature thoughts, sarcasm, hyperbole, truth and humour. If You are allergic to the above, do not proceed. Turn Back Now!
"Us" vs "Them"; "We" vs "They"; "You" vs "Me". As an anthropologist/biologist I can tell you these, and many more words are words of fear and self-sanctification. Used as in the above it comes down to jingoistic posturing. Am I being harsh? The countries and regions sited are predominantly WASP-ish. No, not harsh, merely observant.

This is quite possibly not consciously intended to have such a slant. All of us are products of our culture and the place in history. That runs from our immediate family up through our state and nation.

In this climate (socio-political) words like Chinese (China) & Mexican (Mexico), Democrat, Liberal, Patriot, Muslim, and even names like Californian , Southerner, New Englander, have social connotations in the present. And how we personally interpret such words are exclusively a result of our culture. And this leads to labels. Again, Us vs Them. And if we do so we can dehumanize the Them. Thusly, it becomes acceptable to treat the Thems as lesser-thans. Historically, we use the term: sub-humans. Again, this label allows us castigate these various groups - foreigners. Foreigners are not one of Us! It becomes OK, even championed to abuse the Them, because They are not one of Us.

Every nation, every ethnicity, every generation yields great works of art and engineering feats, they also turn out "stuff that's crap."

If you want/need a top brand widget than go to that widget maker or their recognized retailer. If you want Dainese leathers than go to Cycle Gear; if you want Rizoma rearsets go to Motostrano,

Rizoma Kawasaki ZX6R Rearsets - Motostrano.com

If you go to eBay and the price is phenomenally better than every other vendour you've spent the last 3-nightes scouring the internet has yielded. You might want to slow down and consider the source. Contact the vendour directly. If there is no readily available phone #, or customer service email, than again question how your luck could be, no, is SO out- of-this-world fantastic.The old saw still holds water: "... if it's too good to be true, than it's probably not true.... "

Cheers and blessings to all of us and you.
 

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Once again ZedEx comes through in style and saved me a lot of typing =)

My profession is in manufacturing so I have spent a lot of time with both domestic and overseas production. The issue with Chinese stuff can be the quality of the raw material (China had bad steel for a while) but mostly it is with the quality control. Volume is king there so stuff gets let through that may not pass muster to you or I. That is simply their culture. I have had MANY components for businesses in the past made in China and had absolutely stellar results. Conversely I have also had stuff made in America that was crap. It really comes down to each individual shop.

My current levers are made in China from a machine shop that I have had over 8 years of business with and so I trust that they put out a quality product. I had *really* wanted my second generation levers to be made in the USA but every single quote that I have received would put them at about $400 per set....MY COST. I have no choice but to get them made overseas.

Anyway, I digress.

The point of this was that there can be good and bad stuff from anywhere on the planet. Be a smart consumer and do your diligence to ensure that you end up with something that is quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
My profession is in manufacturing so I have spent a lot of time with both domestic and overseas production. The issue with Chinese stuff can be the quality of the raw material (China had bad steel for a while) but mostly it is with the quality control. Volume is king there so stuff gets let through that may not pass muster to you or I. That is simply their culture. I have had MANY components for businesses in the past made in China and had absolutely stellar results. Conversely I have also had stuff made in America that was crap. It really comes down to each individual shop.
Exactly! That's the point I was trying to make in my previous posts, and it's also an observation or knowledge gained from working in manufacturing as well.
 

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Once again ZedEx comes through in style and saved me a lot of typing =)

My profession is in manufacturing so I have spent a lot of time with both domestic and overseas production. The issue with Chinese stuff can be the quality of the raw material (China had bad steel for a while) but mostly it is with the quality control. Volume is king there so stuff gets let through that may not pass muster to you or I. That is simply their culture. I have had MANY components for businesses in the past made in China and had absolutely stellar results. Conversely I have also had stuff made in America that was crap. It really comes down to each individual shop.

My current levers are made in China from a machine shop that I have had over 8 years of business with and so I trust that they put out a quality product. I had *really* wanted my second generation levers to be made in the USA but every single quote that I have received would put them at about $400 per set....MY COST. I have no choice but to get them made overseas.

Anyway, I digress.

The point of this was that there can be good and bad stuff from anywhere on the planet. Be a smart consumer and do your diligence to ensure that you end up with something that is quality.
I'm not gonna make a global generalization and say that everything you buy from Asia is crappy, but my concern is in the co-opting of branding and what that means to the buyer.

If you go to a reputable distributor and buy a Brembo RCS, you have a good chance of getting what you think you paid for, that its been tested, that there are quality control measures in place in the factory, and so on. Both the distributor and the principal (in this case Brembo) have their reputations on the line for each item they sell, and that reputation for quality is why people will pay $400-500 for an RCS M/C and look down on a $48 item on Ebay. You'll also have a warranty that is likely to be fulfilled, and you have methods of communicating displeasure that are likely to be taken seriously.

The guy selling on Ebay has no reputation to save since he stole Brembo's to start with, so what does he care if your M/C fails at your braking point at 150mph? You have no way to hit his Yelp score, and if you blast him on ebay he'll probably change 1 letter in his email address and keep going while selling the same thing on Alibaba.

If you want to look at why people are concerned about quality in Taiwan/China/Asia, do some checking on building failures in many of those countries. It is epidemic that builders take huge shortcuts to save money using the wrong materials, dumping garbage down concrete pilings, etc... The latest was an apartment building collapse in Tainan - turns out the builder/contractor has done this numerous times before and simply changes his name and continues.

Taiwan earthquake: Toppled high-rise built with tin cans - CNN.com

Cheap sand use threatens building integrity....

Poor-quality Chinese concrete could lead to skyscrapers collapsing | WIRED UK

But I digress....

I agree that in most cases you'll probably be OK, but if something goes wrong there's not much you can do about it, the copier changes name again and goes about his business unhindered, and each case becomes another data point for "Chinese quality sucks". Can it happen in "the west"? Sure it can, and it has happened, but the common practice of stealing brands and using them to sell knockoffs which is so prevalent in Asia I think really increases the risk of it occurring. Caveat emptor!!!
 

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i just scored a used one and mounted it up

that lever though

omg its soooooo ridgid

gonna hit the track next Tuesday, put on new srjl - hopefully my brake marker gets pushed back quite a fewww feeeeet!
I will warn you with BIG LETTERS. Be real careful.
If yours is anything like mine, getting aggressive or panic braking will be BAD.

Start with ONE finger, and take it easy.

OH, have a great track day.
 

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I know this is an older post but it's got recent activity so why not...plus someone might look at this in the future as well. The beauty of forums...assuming people take the time to research.

The OEM brake setup on the 07+ ZX6 is awesome and there's zero reason to upgrade. The 05/06 636's had garbage stock calipers that should be unbolted and thrown in the dumpster, and replaced with the Nissin's from the 07-12 ZX6 or ZX14.

You want the easiest brake upgrade ever? Change your brake pads. Brake pads by far play a larger role in power, feel, and brake fade than a master, calipers, or lines ever will. Does the other stuff make a difference? Yes, it does. And the difference is more noticeable the faster you are. As much difference as a pad change? No. The OEM rotors are also really good, much like the R6 rotors. Buying $400+ fancy rotors is about the stupidest money you could ever spend, unless you're going for bling points. You will not notice any difference, aside from a lighter wallet. Or, any notice that you might have noticed is probably the result of the new brake pads you got (you weren't dumb enough to use worn pads on brand new rotors...right?!?!) Warped rotors? Buy some stock ones off ebay and save that money and put it towards SS lines or something. The only way you can take advantage of what $$$ rotors have to offer is if you have the $2,000 calipers and $1,000 M/C to push those pads against said rotors.

Only way I'd consider upgrading the master is if it needed rebuilt or whatever, and it was easier to just get a new, better one. Race orgs (WERA/MA) state that you must use OEM equipment, and I promise you there are guys light years faster than you that will out brake you on stock equipment.

In short...if you have to ask what you need, you don't actually need it. Those that get to the point where they could benefit from it, don't have to ask what they need, because they already know...
 

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The OEM brake setup on the 07+ ZX6 is awesome and there's zero reason to upgrade...

...Race orgs (WERA/MA) state that you must use OEM equipment, and I promise you there are guys light years faster than you that will out brake you on stock equipment.
I guess it is all relative. Yes, master on my 13+ is outstanding. It has plenty of stopping power but the big advantage of the Brembo unit is the feel and feedback that you get. It is vastly superior to the OEM unit.

Also, not all race orgs require that you use OEM. Many consider any part of the braking system to be safety related and so able to be changed. I run in the CCS 'stock' classes and I have a Brembo MC which is perfectly legal in my classes.

I do completely agree that the biggest bang for your buck in terms of braking upgrades are definitely pads followed by braided lines. The stock rotors are usually quite good.
 
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