Hot start trouble

2202 Views 22 Replies 6 Participants Last post by matt1, Apr 21, 2015

matt1

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2015

I've flicked through loads of incomplete threads about this. My zx6r G2 last night after an evening of 'spirited' riding decided she wasn't going to start after I refuelled, I near enough killed the battery. I bumped her straight into life and went off, rides fine no power loss nothing different about what's coming out exhaust no obvious signs of problem. I then stopped at a friends house, turned off and gave another try using the button, and although it turns over just doesn't fire up. I left it, went inside an hour later came out started first time off the button.
So what am I thinking? I've never checked shims which is what a lot of people point to. Should I be going straight at them or what else is there.
I don't think its anything electrical as it's fine when cold or warm, just not hot I was out for around 5hrs last night with a mate on his R6.....(also it was a cool night and at no point did my fan come on so not an overheating hot)
Other threads have suggested carb cleaning? But would this not be the same regardless of temp?
What are your thoughts?
Here she is just before I went out

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1 - 20 of 23 Posts

riverszzr

· #2 · Apr 3, 2015

Valves would have to be very tight for those to be the issue.......... but yours are the classic symptoms of tight valves---no start condition when hot, but fire right up when cold.

how many miles on it, when were they last actually adjusted

I just did a 42,000 gsxr600 recently that they claimed (dealer claimed actually and customer had receipts) were adjusted at 16k and 35k---yet the welds on the frame corners were in the way to remove the valve cover gasket still (many 600 gsxr's have this issue where the welds were so globbed on you needed to grind down a few mm to get the valve cover up and out)

anyways- obviously the cover had never been off.

all the intakes had 0 or less clearance, and all the exhausts were between 0 and about .003" clearances.......

lets just say it ran much better and started easier after a proper adjustment~ and while I did not ever ride it before, I bet it had tons more power than how he was riding it too.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 3, 2015

It's got around 27000miles on it. I've had it 9months and never checked them nor had any mention from previous owner or can I see anything about it in the history.. So the assumption would be never?! Or at some point in its life by someone somewhere..
It's never done it before so maybe it just tipped over the edge?
This a get it done ASAP don't ride it situation?

matt1

Discussion Starter · #4 · Apr 3, 2015

I've just read through it in my Haynes, seems easy enough.. Only thing is the only gasket it mentions is the pickup coil cover, Are there any others I should get? Never done this before, although I once changed the timing belt on my Vauxhall Astra outside it winter...so just a matter of making sure it all stays in the right times?

twisted 6

· #5 · Apr 3, 2015

check your ignition coils as well. I have had the exact same issue in the past on older bikes and found the ignition coil to be the problem

matt1

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 3, 2015

How can I check them? Haven't got spares or know anyone to swap over.
Thanks everyone for advice so far

twisted 6

· #7 · Apr 3, 2015

check the resistance, sometimes you can also visually see damage on the coil from spark arc.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 3, 2015

Just read up on that, will check that first before valves. A mate of mines said he'll check my valves / do them once he's finished building his MV.

twisted 6

· #9 · Apr 3, 2015

good luck, keep us posted

Strider

· #10 · Apr 3, 2015

Mine did this a few times when it was in need of a valve adjustment. After the adjustment the issue went away.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 3, 2015

Will do!
If it is (and seems likely) a valve issue, should
I not ride until it's sorted? What sort of implications can this have? As it seems ok, but obviously is somethig that needs doing.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 4, 2015

Ok, so it's gna be ages before my mate gets his MV finished, and summers coming so I'm just going to give it a go myself. Seen loads of guides on it, I've got the tools so step by step I should be ok.
Ordered new pickup gasket and a new valve cover gasket so only thing I don't have is shims which I'll order when I know what I need.
Plan is to sort out a workable space in my garage tomorrow, strip down to be able to measure clearances on Monday then order shims Tuesday, back together sat

We'll see. But will keep updated!
Any input is more than welcome!

matt1

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 5, 2015

Been researching this nonstop, not ridden at all. From what I've found there are a few potential causes:
Carbs need cleaning/ float stuck- can't see this is it as it's just it won't fire when hot. Runs fine if bumped.

Spark Plugs - some suggested

Vapour lock- I couldn't find anymore on this so if someone can explain how to check.

Dodgy electrical connection or faulty ignition part

Tight valves - I'm due a valve check and not found anything to show they've been done...

Running too rich - if it is? Then it's always been like it but never had this issue before..

Either way tomorrow I'm checking valve clearance and will be changing the plugs as I've not done them. They may hold some clues..

Also just thought I'd throw this in, I spoke to local kawi dealer. They told me £80 an hour, I asked how long they said £80 an hour could be 4hours could be 12 hours.... He said it depends on if theirs seized bolts etc etc... So no quotes...?! I expect I pay for their tea breaks too?

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RJ2112

· #14 · Apr 5, 2015

You may also want to check out the age of the battery in that bike.... if it is near the end of it's life, it won't hold a lot of charge and may give you some issues when you try and start it.

An older bike usually isn't what a dealership wants to work on. Privateer shops are where you want to get work done, on older bikes. Start asking around for who does good work at reasonable rates -- you'll find somone who is willing to work with you. Not as much as the Kawasaki dealer, but it's still not going to be cheap.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 6, 2015

The battery was replaced last September after the reg/rec packed up. I will check the voltage though just Incase. But it's only a start issue when hot..
Yeah I appreciate that but there's no need for attitude, put it this way, not a chance I'll ever get a bike from there now if that's how they talk to people.
Anyway I'm going for it myself and typically it's blue skies and sunshine! Feel like crying but it needs to be done.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #16 · Apr 6, 2015

Here she is awaiting surgery.

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matt1

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 6, 2015

Not the most sophisticated of garages but got to make do.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 6, 2015

So today I thought before I jump straight at the valves I tried to recreate the circumstances that caused it not to start, couldn't get it to happen. Let I sit and heat until the fan kicked in, turned it off an it restarted straight off the button!
I checked the battery; may need changing as its at 10v though this was changed last week :/ also the Reg/Rec is fine and tested.
I thought since in here I might aswel do something, and changed the plugs. No sign of any combustion problem, good colour and clean. Started it up after and was still fine could not get it to not start :s
I'm going to see how this goes as have a busy summer planned, if it continues I will go for valves. In the meantime battery is likely to need changing as it seems a cell down..

Strider

· #19 · Apr 6, 2015

Yea, that battery seems to be bad. 10V is very low after just one week of sitting.

matt1

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 7, 2015

Its not old at all but was sat from maybe November to February, still had charge but died when was trying to bring back to life. Seems a good place to start though

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