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Discussion Starter #1
So I made the switch late this season to Engine Ice. In other words, the stuff in my ZX6 is still very fresh and I probably wont do another flush and system refill until mid to late next season.

The Engine Ice website states that Engine Ice offers freeze protection up to 26 degrees below zero. My bike lives in a garage in NY that will rarely if ever see below freezing temps, and if so, nothing worse than 30 degrees farenheit or so.

My buddy swears, however, that on a winter trip one time with his bike being hauled in an uncovered trailer, his Engine Ice froze and luckicly only resulted in him popping his freeze plugs. He didnt recall the temp, but I doubt it was below 6* farenheit.

Have any of you ever experienced this stuff freezing??
 

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Water Wetter has a low freeze point and isn't recommended for winter use, I'm not sure about Engine Ice.
Also if he was on a winter trip, wind chill would be significantly lower than ambient temps.
 

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Cover the bike with a tarp; put a shop light (with a normal - not fluorescent - 40 watt bulb on a 2x4 under the bike motor. Make sure the tarp is all the way to the floor. Turn the light on. Walk away.... That bulb will heat the air under that tarp more than enough to prevent freezing.... When I lived in really cold places, that's what we did to our water systems, well heads, our bikes (overseas), etc.
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Lately, once a year, usually in January, it will drop to 28 degrees overnight here in South central Florida. I still use the lightbulb trick on the well head (inside a big bucket), and where the well pipe comes up and enters the house. Also, I just flush the toilet once or twice in the night. the ground/ well water is about 65 degrees,and the flow melts any possible ice formation.
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I would suspect that pure "engine ice" meets the manufacturer's claims about freezing, etc. Even so, I would contact them and ask.
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Personally? I wonder if the friend's bike had enough anti freeze in it for the temps he experienced.
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Just some "freezing" ramblings....
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Not sure if my buddies bike had a water/Engine Ice mix. Thats something I will have to ask him. Also a good point that while at highway speed, with the inherent wind chill the temp will be much lower than ambient air temp.

Groom - Pretty good idea with the shop light. I am sure that would emit more than enough heat under a tarp to keep anything from freezing. Never considered that.
 

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Tarps work very well at keeping the wind out did kinda the same thing on a camping trip the high was 33degrees in the 3 day trip we did not have electricity though!
 

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Also a good point that while at highway speed, with the inherent wind chill the temp will be much lower than ambient air temp.
This would be why his froze. The radiator is VERY efficient at swapping thermal energy, so the fact that it was ~6*F while on an uncovered trailer moving at highway speeds means he was right around the freezing point of engine ice.

Unless you have an arctic breeze blowing through your garage I wouldn't worry about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This would be why his froze. The radiator is VERY efficient at swapping thermal energy, so the fact that it was ~6*F while on an uncovered trailer moving at highway speeds means he was right around the freezing point of engine ice.

Unless you have an arctic breeze blowing through your garage I wouldn't worry about it.
Yea, I am feeling the same way. Thanks for the reassurance, dude.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wind chill has absolutely no bearing. The water temp will not go below ambient temp no matter how fast you go. Science 101.
Yea, but just think about the effects of wind moving over the cooling fins of a radiatorwith the bike running. A sitting bike could be a good 30-40 degrees hotter than when its moving.

I would imagine that the same effect occurs on a non running bike while it is moving and cold air is passing over the radiator, no?
 

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Yea, but just think about the effects of wind moving over the cooling fins of a radiatorwith the bike running. A sitting bike could be a good 30-40 degrees hotter than when its moving.

I would imagine that the same effect occurs on a non running bike while it is moving and cold air is passing over the radiator, no?
Well I'm no Rocket scientist , But that sure sounds right to me.

Only the water pump is not pumping, so the frozen water should stay in the rad,? Still you don't want to buy a new rad.???
 

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The radiator removes heat but it can only remove heat down to what the outside air temperature is. It can remove that heat faster when you have airflow through the fins to help take that heat away but it will still only bring the temperature down to the same level of the ambient temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The radiator removes heat but it can only remove heat down to what the outside air temperature is. It can remove that heat faster when you have airflow through the fins to help take that heat away but it will still only bring the temperature down to the same level of the ambient temperature.
Actually yea, that makes perfect sense. Thanks dude!
 

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Yea, but just think about the effects of wind moving over the cooling fins of a radiatorwith the bike running. A sitting bike could be a good 30-40 degrees hotter than when its moving.

I would imagine that the same effect occurs on a non running bike while it is moving and cold air is passing over the radiator, no?
Trackdayhero is absolutely right on this one. You can ignore my previous post on this, I wasn't thinking with a clear head due to the leftover effects of some pain meds.

Wind speed is going to dictate the rate at which thermal transfer occurs, while ambient temperature will dictate the "floor" that the substance will reach. This means that if you want to cool water from 100*F down to an ambient temperature of 35*F, the faster you move the ambient fluid the faster this will occur, but it will not be able to cool beyond 35*F. You follow?

A bike that's sitting compared to a bike that's moving will have a hotter temperature, but this is because the thermal transfer rate across the radiator core is negligible until the fans kick on or until you get moving. The engine will gladly get the liquid to boil if the fans weren't there. The fans exist simply to "simulate" the vehicle in motion. In other words, they draw ambient air across the core at a high enough velocity to increase the thermal transfer rate similar to if the bike is in motion, and they shut off once the desired lowered temperature has been reached.

Thinking more about your friend's bike, here's what I think may have happened. Pure engine ice freezes at about -26*F, but water freezes at 32*F. I believe that I'm right in saying that a solution can have it's freezing point averaged between the two temperatures. A 50/50 mix would mean an average freezing point of 3*F. So it's highly probable that the solution wasn't exactly 50/50 and had a bit more water than engine ice in it.
 

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TDH knows his shit....this is straight from wikipedia :
The speed of cooling has different effects on inanimate objects and biological organisms. For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity.
 

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Trackdayhero is absolutely right on this one. You can ignore my previous post on this, I wasn't thinking with a clear head due to the leftover effects of some pain meds.

Wind speed is going to dictate the rate at which thermal transfer occurs, while ambient temperature will dictate the "floor" that the substance will reach. This means that if you want to cool water from 100*F down to an ambient temperature of 35*F, the faster you move the ambient fluid the faster this will occur, but it will not be able to cool beyond 35*F. You follow?

A bike that's sitting compared to a bike that's moving will have a hotter temperature, but this is because the thermal transfer rate across the radiator core is negligible until the fans kick on or until you get moving. The engine will gladly get the liquid to boil if the fans weren't there. The fans exist simply to "simulate" the vehicle in motion. In other words, they draw ambient air across the core at a high enough velocity to increase the thermal transfer rate similar to if the bike is in motion, and they shut off once the desired lowered temperature has been reached.

Thinking more about your friend's bike, here's what I think may have happened. Pure engine ice freezes at about -26*F, but water freezes at 32*F. I believe that I'm right in saying that a solution can have it's freezing point averaged between the two temperatures. A 50/50 mix would mean an average freezing point of 3*F. So it's highly probable that the solution wasn't exactly 50/50 and had a bit more water than engine ice in it.
Exactly right. Chances are he flushed old coolant out with water and chances are he wouldn't have gotten all the water out when putting Engine Ice in. You would have to waste a lot of Engine ice to flush it out properly and get pure Engine Ice solution but who wants to do that. That shit's expensive. :)
 

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TDH knows his shit....this is straight from wikipedia :
The speed of cooling has different effects on inanimate objects and biological organisms. For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity.
I was actually a programmer for the AFCCC/Air Weather Service (Air Force branch related to NOAA) for a few years so I know a little about these kinds of things. :) I used to write programs to calculate things such as icing conditions on wings for given altitudes, temperatures, humidity, etc.
 
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