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Discussion Starter #1
So I took my fork tubes in to be anodized. They were supposed to plug the holes, but they didn't. The stripper got in the tubes. I called Damon at MM and he said this has ruined the forks because it has most likely taken the Teflon off the slides.

NOW, coming in to work I started talking to a few people. We broke it down. What takes off gold? Iodine. Does Iodine take off Teflon? To the best of my research, no. We have Teflon boats at work we put in all different types of Acids and what not. I felt really stupid for getting so upset last night. They are right. We take gold off ALL THE TIME here and it’s IN Teflon boats. The Teflon (although a super THICK Teflon) boats are fine after, but the gold is not.

So my question to ya'll (although I'm starting to realize ya'll are great with carbs and fuel to air ratios but suck at all things metal) would the iodine have compromised the metal BETWEEN the slide and the tube? Has anyone ever done this before? How can I be the only person on ZX6R to anodize their fork tubes?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The cleaner is an Akaline cleaner and Teflon degrades from Akali metals. An Akaline cleaner most likely has sodium metasilicate. Now would that degrade the Teflon? Since it has Sodium in it?

I've called and requested an MSDS (chemical sheet) on the stripper used. If I can rule out everything used in the clean/strip process... I may be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Like I said... we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. I'm still learning when it comes to engines and suspension. But I'm fairly good with Electrical and Metal work. It is what it is.

Insert a picture of Bill Nye the Science Guy here...
 

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ok... :D




On a serious note.... I'm really not sure man. I can check with my pops later on and see if he's got some insight. Dude knows his metal.
:D
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ok... :D




On a serious note.... I'm really not sure man. I can check with my pops later on and see if he's got some insight. Dude knows his metal.
:D
Honestly man, that would be much appreciated. If the clean/strip process has NOT compromised my slides (Teflon) then I won't have to buy another set of forks and/or force the company that possibly ruined them to fork over 400 bucks for my new (used) forks.

*They used an Akaline Cleaner and then a gold stripper (most likely Potassium Iodine)*

This seems entirely over complicated... and it is. But it wouldn't be this complicated if they hadn't fucked up in the first place. :rant
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Physics and Electrical Engineering I can rock all day long. Turn around and apply that shit to something practical


Chemistry, fuck that shit. The answer is 5 dude.
5 and 1.21 Jiggawatts. ;)

They annodized the outer tubes or the stantions? Whatever it is, make them buy you new shit for fucking up and not following your request.
They stripped the outer gold and let the stripper get into the inside of the tubes. We did not remove the slides because it's a bitch to do so and I didn't want to risk damaging them as they are 700 dollars apiece. Cheaper to buy new (used) forks. They wanted to proceed with Anodizing (most likely because they still want their money) but I told them it's pointless if they have already fucked up and not done what I made sure to put in LARGE lettering on the bill of sale.

I'm left now checking the chemicals against what degrades Teflon and looking into whether or not the metal around the slides can/cannot be anodized. Are they compromised? Can they be saved? If they hard anodize and end up anodizing the inside (like I told them to avoid) will this compromise the slides and/or the forks?

Honestly this seems like way too much work, but I don't want them to proceed if they are indeed working on what is now scrap. Nor do I want to install compromised forks on my Sport Bike. :rant
 

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I actually looked up anodizing my tubes a while ago. I really wanted them to be black like the newer ones. I did read up that anodizing the forks was a real bitch due to the possibility of compromising the internals. I did read up that a hard anodize would be possible with some specialists.

I'm not sure about breaking down the teflon (doubt there would've been a massive amount of iodine or a lengthy exposure time) but it is possible it could have gotten inbetween near a seal and loosened the slides from the tubes?

I'm curious, did you inspect the tubes before you sent them to the anodizers? Were they anodized in the area in question already? I know it isn't the same after the teflon slides have been fixed to the tubes, but may give you an idea. You don't want to rebuild your forks.

I'm just going to wait for someone to part out a later '11 or '12 or even '13 and pick up their tubes :p
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I actually looked up anodizing my tubes a while ago. I really wanted them to be black like the newer ones. I did read up that anodizing the forks was a real bitch due to the possibility of compromising the internals. I did read up that a hard anodize would be possible with some specialists.

I'm not sure about breaking down the teflon (doubt there would've been a massive amount of iodine or a lengthy exposure time) but it is possible it could have gotten inbetween near a seal and loosened the slides from the tubes?

I'm curious, did you inspect the tubes before you sent them to the anodizers? Were they anodized in the area in question already? I know it isn't the same after the teflon slides have been fixed to the tubes, but may give you an idea. You don't want to rebuild your forks.

I'm just going to wait for someone to part out a later '11 or '12 or even '13 and pick up their tubes :p
That's what I'm worried about, the "loosened the slides" from the tubes, and/or anodizing in between the slides and compromising them adhering to the tubes. Also whether or not the stripper contains elements that would degrade the Teflon. I'm going to talk to a guy here at work about all this and see what's what. I did inspect them prior to anodize, they are anodized inside UP to the slides. However there is no telling if Showa anodized the tubes THEN put the slides in. And I already tried to call Showa in Japan, too damn hard to get someone on the phone who actually speaks English and can direct me to who I need to speak to.

And for you buddy, I would just wait for a Monster ed set of forks to come up. Found several online through salvage yards or eBay. However I can only go up to an 08 with my specs. I found a nice set of Red forks from an 07/08 special ed. But I wanted black damnit! lol. We will see. I will talk to one of the engineers at work later and then inspect the tubes tonight or tomorrow to see what's what.

Thanks for the words bro. Cheers!
 

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That's what I'm worried about, the "loosened the slides" from the tubes, and/or anodizing in between the slides and compromising them adhering to the tubes. Also whether or not the stripper contains elements that would degrade the Teflon. I'm going to talk to a guy here at work about all this and see what's what. I did inspect them prior to anodize, they are anodized inside UP to the slides. However there is no telling if Showa anodized the tubes THEN put the slides in. And I already tried to call Showa in Japan, too damn hard to get someone on the phone who actually speaks English and can direct me to who I need to speak to.

And for you buddy, I would just wait for a Monster ed set of forks to come up. Found several online through salvage yards or eBay. However I can only go up to an 08 with my specs. I found a nice set of Red forks from an 07/08 special ed. But I wanted black damnit! lol. We will see. I will talk to one of the engineers at work later and then inspect the tubes tonight or tomorrow to see what's what.

Thanks for the words bro. Cheers!
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I'd almost guarantee the forks were anodized completely before anything was inserted into the tubes themselves. I mean, keep in mind the production line mentality all the sets of forks would go through. I'm sure they're anodizing a massive amount of like 20+ sets at a time. I would just be concerned, like you said, about any adhesive breakdown. Don't think that the teflon itself would break down since it's in a lubricated environment anyways. Just what I'm thinking...

Good luck, I'd be interested with what you find out :bigthumb:
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I'd almost guarantee the forks were anodized completely before anything was inserted into the tubes themselves. I mean, keep in mind the production line mentality all the sets of forks would go through. I'm sure they're anodizing a massive amount of like 20+ sets at a time. I would just be concerned, like you said, about any adhesive breakdown. Don't think that the teflon itself would break down since it's in a lubricated environment anyways. Just what I'm thinking...

Good luck, I'd be interested with what you find out :bigthumb:
I agree. That's what I told her. That most likely they anodized the tubes FIRST and then inserted the slides. Makes more sense to do it that way. The teflon may be damaged by Akali based metals ... sodium is one of them, and present in Akaline based cleaners (which is what they used)... however I do not believe the sodium I'm thinking of and the sodium which breaks down Teflon is the same thing. Metal vs Liquid. But then again, I'm not a chemical engineer. So we'll see what the Chem Eng here at work says...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
In case anyone gives a shit or is interested. Here is what they used to strip the Gold. NOT potassium Iodine (which would have worked and have been WAY less agressive)...

Phosphoric Ceiling Conc. (7664-38-2)
Chromic Acid (7738-94-5)
Nitric Acid @ 42 Degrees (7697-37-2)

This is bad, but may not be so bad that it damaged the Teflon. I will double check my notes and then consult with one of the Chemical Engineers. We will also discuss the adhesion of the slides to the tubes.
 

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I'm not gonna lie, this seems like a lot of work to change the color of the fork tubes.
I wanna find someone with black ones that just wants to switch for mine cuz I'm a cool guy :laugh

Or maybe because mine have less miles on them? :O
 
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F the miles...just service them shits.

Damn pretty boy.
No you silly man. I want someone to trade me for MINE because they have low miles. I'll service the black ones if I can get em from someone. :)
 

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:thatsgay

I'm not a big fan of it...but this may be a time for it....

Plastidip....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm not gonna lie, this seems like a lot of work to change the color of the fork tubes.
Aircraft grade anodizers SHOULD be able to put anodizing anywhere without it affecting whatever you specify. You are right, this does seem like a lot of work. But (and I'll repeat myself) if they had done it right in the first place, there would be no problem.

Plug tubes. Strip Gold. Hard Anodize. Done. It's not fucking rocket science. They have just MADE it more work by not properly plugging the ends of the tubes.

On another note. I have eliminated all possible elements that could potentially degrade the Teflon. I will be telling them to proceed. I will also be inspecting the Teflon slides with a scope prior to fork assembly.
 
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