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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm asking around I'm looking to see if there is any defects are recalls on a 2021 ZX6R if anybody can help me or what would cause the piston to beat against the spark plug the bike only a year old and I was checking the oil every other day so I knew they had oil in it
 

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So assuming here;

you did nothing recently to change anything and the piston suddenly just started wacking the plug.........

it blew up, dropped a valve, spun a rod or some other major failure unless it injested something big
 

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I'm asking around I'm looking to see if there is any defects are recalls on a 2021 ZX6R if anybody can help me or what would cause the piston to beat against the spark plug the bike only a year old and I was checking the oil every other day so I knew they had oil in it
Thats terrible. No major issues with the 2019-2022 Ninja (636) engines. However, anything can fail. But it’s usually user error that causes catastrophic engine failure.

Im curious as to what happen to your bike. Any updates?
 

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Did you change plugs with one that was too long?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
they don't know exactly how it happened no I didn't do spark plugs it dont need them yet and oil was full and what has happened is it dropped the valve down into the piston and they want to say it's lack of oil to that valve and they don't know how it happened so I was thinking that the valve when it was made was machine down too thin and it broke right at the head of the valve they're still trying to determine if Kawasaki is going to take care of it or not I have the extended warranty and everything but they don't know if they're going to
replace it or not
 

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How many miles on the bike when this happened, and how were you riding it? What modifications have been done to it? Any chance a manual CCT is involved?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
it's got about 8000 miles and i was in traffic doing 55 front and back sprocket and an exhaust that's it they told me everything else was good they can't see what happened
 

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The valve train is typically near bullet proof; please forgive the suspicion of abuse, the valve train is that bullet proof.

If this is a trend, then you will have a much higher chance of getting proper treatment from mother Kawasaki.
 

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So valve head removes itself from the valve stem.............. right where the manufacturing process joins them???

Do you have pictures of any of this???????? I mean if they have it apart go get pictures!!!

There are only a couple of reasons this happens........... and it is so uncommon for Kawasaki and Honda that they immediately suspect owner abuse 99.99999999999999999% of the time, becasue that is the correct assumption 99.99999999999999999% of the time

~over rev and mechanically you force the valve spring to exceed its strength limit and the valve "floats and whacks the piston (either via blatant stupid downshifts to usurp the rev limiter or by simply WOT hamfisting it in neutral and pounding it off the limiter)
~ cam chain or cam chain tensioner failure to change timing enough to force interference between valves and pistons
~ con rod bearing failure so the clearance gets so big now it travels up another 060" or so (all the PTV there is) and they make physical contact
~ there was a failure in the spring, the retaining washer, the e-clips or in the valve construction itself
~ the valve shim.....chineseum shims specifically !!! as no manufacturer will warranty anything in the engine if it has chineseum valve shims, they fail that fucking often!!!!!!!!

That is it........... those are the basic 3 scenarios

you can run them out of oil, you can blow a hole in the radiator you can scream that down the road at 14,000 rpms for entire tanks of fuel and this won't happen........


you are hoping it is #2 or #4 on my list and ma kaw can determine that and thus cover it under warranty

but without seeing any of the insides of your engine and especially the rest of the engine besides the head and valve alone.......... I cannot tell you what happened, but I sure could tell you with 100% positivity if I was taking it apart...... I always know, even when all the customers lie about shit... the engine tells the story all by itself

Dealer has some incentive for it to not be covered under warranty especially if they think you will pay to fix it;

under warranty dealer makes zero dollars profit on any parts and gets paid flatrate time at a discounted rate (I believe ma kaw is $65/hr now)........... so best case scenario dealer may gross $1000 or less

under customer pay.......... dealer makes about 50% proffit on parts......... this would easily be $3k in parts, so dealer is already $1500 in the black, dealer also changes full shop rate for the time they decide it takes, lets just say this is a 20 hour job and they charge $125/hr............. now the dealer just made an additional $2500

warranty, best case scenario dealer makes ..............................................$1000
not warrantied, best case scenario dealer makes about ..........................$4000

some simple math and bean counting tells the story as to why the dealers push for stuff to not be warrantied.........

Ma Kaw listens to the dealers presentation and makes their determination off what the dealer says, they give zero fucks either way.......... worst case scenario to the manufacturer if warrantied is out a couple thousand dollars in cost on 1 lone bike, that takes away all or nearly all of their profit on that bike....whoopi shit

You need to always get the dealer on your side and make sure the facts as they represent them to ma kaw are beneficial to you!!!!!!!!!!! It makes all the difference in how ma kaw responds

I have been down this road with all the Jap oems on dozens of bikes

but I would love to see pictures and get the claim number........... I have contacts at kaw I can see the report and the direct notes.....
Be interesting to see what is being said
 
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The valve train is typically near bullet proof; please forgive the suspicion of abuse, the valve train is that bullet proof.

If this is a trend, then you will have a much higher chance of getting proper treatment from mother Kawasaki.
The stock valve train on all 636‘s are bullet proof? I’ve heard people say if you increase the revv limiter, then you should have the top end worked over.

I know you’re an OG on here. I just want to hear more about this is all.
 
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Bullet proof is a relative term. Compared to any other valve actuation system out there, having the cam lobe directly moving the valve is the most precise and reliable method there is for pushing the valve open.

Finger follower, rocker arm, push rod, all have more mechanical slop and less ability to deal with RPM.

The only remaining element of the valve train that is subject to variation is the spring used to pull the valve back out of the cylinder. Formula one race cars have gone to pneumatic springs instead of coils of wire….. a spring remains stable in stiffness, until it hits resonance, where it will become ‘softer’. If the valve can’t get out of the way it will become piston fodder.

As far as RPM limits set by the factory for large lot production engines, the limit is set based on a potential worst case combination of tolerances which are driven by variation allowed in parts and assembly of the production engines.

The kinetic energy in the reciprocating parts goes up as a function of the square of velocity. The higher the RPM, the further the crankshaft is pulled off center, the harder the cams hit the valves, the less margin there is for the springs to pull that valve back out of the way as it gains more energy from the higher acceleration applied.
 

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The super stock racing classes have been required to run production engines, transmission, suspension etc, etc., for many years. The idea being that these bikes are ‘just like’ what you can buy at the neighborhood dealership. That would be true, if you had the top 1/10 th of 1% of the very best parts for everything going into the mechanicals. Perfectly to the dead nuts center of every specification, all reciprocating parts perfectly matched, balanced and true to the highest degree of accuracy possible.

Those parts are then assembled by the very best race mechanics with as much finesse as a Rolls Royce jet engine. No amount of time or money is too much.

The performance difference between that, and a parts bin bike can be substantial. Even the homologation specials aren’t that precisely matched/built. (They do allow more goodies than a typical production class model).

If you take that works production build and dyno it, there’s every reason to expect +10-15% more hp, and the ability to withstand higher rev limits for even more power. It’s quite simply a much higher quality product than what you and I can buy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So valve head removes itself from the valve stem.............. right where the manufacturing process joins them???

Do you have pictures of any of this???????? I mean if they have it apart go get pictures!!!

There are only a couple of reasons this happens........... and it is so uncommon for Kawasaki and Honda that they immediately suspect owner abuse 99.99999999999999999% of the time, becasue that is the correct assumption 99.99999999999999999% of the time

~over rev and mechanically you force the valve spring to exceed its strength limit and the valve "floats and whacks the piston (either via blatant stupid downshifts to usurp the rev limiter or by simply WOT hamfisting it in neutral and pounding it off the limiter)
~ cam chain or cam chain tensioner failure to change timing enough to force interference between valves and pistons
~ con rod bearing failure so the clearance gets so big now it travels up another 060" or so (all the PTV there is) and they make physical contact
~ there was a failure in the spring, the retaining washer, the e-clips or in the valve construction itself
~ the valve shim.....chineseum shims specifically !!! as no manufacturer will warranty anything in the engine if it has chineseum valve shims, they fail that fucking often!!!!!!!!

That is it........... those are the basic 3 scenarios

you can run them out of oil, you can blow a hole in the radiator you can scream that down the road at 14,000 rpms for entire tanks of fuel and this won't happen........


you are hoping it is #2 or #4 on my list and ma kaw can determine that and thus cover it under warranty

but without seeing any of the insides of your engine and especially the rest of the engine besides the head and valve alone.......... I cannot tell you what happened, but I sure could tell you with 100% positivity if I was taking it apart...... I always know, even when all the customers lie about shit... the engine tells the story all by itself

Dealer has some incentive for it to not be covered under warranty especially if they think you will pay to fix it;

under warranty dealer makes zero dollars profit on any parts and gets paid flatrate time at a discounted rate (I believe ma kaw is $65/hr now)........... so best case scenario dealer may gross $1000 or less

under customer pay.......... dealer makes about 50% proffit on parts......... this would easily be $3k in parts, so dealer is already $1500 in the black, dealer also changes full shop rate for the time they decide it takes, lets just say this is a 20 hour job and they charge $125/hr............. now the dealer just made an additional $2500

warranty, best case scenario dealer makes ..............................................$1000
not warrantied, best case scenario dealer makes about ..........................$4000

some simple math and bean counting tells the story as to why the dealers push for stuff to not be warrantied.........

Ma Kaw listens to the dealers presentation and makes their determination off what the dealer says, they give zero fucks either way.......... worst case scenario to the manufacturer if warrantied is out a couple thousand dollars in cost on 1 lone bike, that takes away all or nearly all of their profit on that bike....whoopi shit

You need to always get the dealer on your side and make sure the facts as they represent them to ma kaw are beneficial to you!!!!!!!!!!! It makes all the difference in how ma kaw responds

I have been down this road with all the Jap oems on dozens of bikes

but I would love to see pictures and get the claim number........... I have contacts at kaw I can see the report and the direct notes.....
Be interesting to see what is being said
that would be bad ass if u can this is my 1st brand new bike i still owe 11,000 on it no bull shit i had it for 9 months i wish u could help me with ur people but rn anything well help
Wheel Tire Land vehicle Vehicle Fuel tank
 

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that would be bad ass if u can this is my 1st brand new bike i still owe 11,000 on it no bull shit i had it for 9 months i wish u could help me with ur people but rn anything well help View attachment 111581
Not a picture of the bike.........

a picture of the failed parts and the engine apart.......... as many as you can get!

and what is your claim number with ma kaw............ surely they have one already....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Not a picture of the bike.........

a picture of the failed parts and the engine apart.......... as many as you can get!

and what is your claim number with ma kaw............ surely they have one already....
i heard back today Kawasaki said they're not going to accept it because they found a little piece of foil at the bottom of the oil pickup maybe about the size of a dime they said that's the cause of it dropping the valve into the piston but if anybody knows can I stick on 1,000 engine on it
 

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So when oil was changed a piece of the foil seal went in???????

That is not the casue, nor would it result of why you dropped a valve...........

big enough to actually restrict flow.........it could restrict oil flow to score bearings and cam caps and piston skirts
are any of those things present?
and if it wear big enough to restrict oil flow so bad as to not get any oil to the head--- it would be so obvious as soon as one tried to pull the cam caps or even got the valve cover off and just looked at the cam lobes......

Dealer fucked you! dry with no lube!

and no a 1000 doesn't just "drop right in"

You'd be better off buying a liter bike complete and riding that than trying to buy a engine, ecu, exhaust, airbox, throttle bodies, wiring, cutting frame and welding and all the other stuff that would be needed to make that swap and most likely.......... still have a frankenjunk unrideable pile of dogshit
 
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