06 ZX6R - Motor dies 12 miles after service @ 40k? New motor?

2302 Views 40 Replies 7 Participants Last post by rtrofimovich, Apr 30, 2015

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · Mar 31, 2015

So, I posted about this last fall, asking for guidance on how to get plastics repaired affordably.

I dropped bike in september, after which I took it to a small shop near my work due to convenience. The accident was in San Diego, I rode it post-accident 100 miles to Anaheim (where I live/work) - ran great. While getting the plastics repaired, I had them do its 40k mile service... valves, spark plugs, etc... again since it was convenient.

I pick the bike up 2 weeks ago and I get a total of 12 miles before it takes a dump. One cylinder is low on the compression test (during the service, they were supposedly all 140psi; one is down to 80psi). Sounds like rings, piston, rod or something of that sort.

It ran briefly post service reasonably well. Seemed to smoke some, which the shop attributed to sitting for a while.

Im personally having a hard time seeing it being a coincidence; while I may never prove it, I have a feeling he screwed something up... misadjusted a valve, something. For the moment we went back to my insurance and said there was damage from the accident we couldn't see which resulted in the engine failure, hoping they help a little more. While its technically possible, like I said, I'm skeptical. A shame since its been out of commission over 6 months and now looks better than it has in years with the fresh plastics on it.

Questions:
1) Where can I find new/used 06 636 engines? How much will they run? I've been told its likely cheaper to get a whole new one than tear it apart.
2) If he did screw something up, any idea what it might have been?
3) Are there any options I'm missing? How much would a shop charge for new rings/bearings and to replace any rods or pistons that are bad? How hard is it to rebuild myself? What would I expect if I parted the bike out instead?

Ugh. Thanks for the help.

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40acres

· #2 · Mar 31, 2015

I would take it to a reputable shop after you do a leak down test. Then once you figure out what the problem is (with plenty if pictures) you March right over to that hole in the wall shop and ask them to pay the bill.

I have a friend... Sorry, ACQUAINTANCE who consistently takes his bikes to the small shaops to save money, and he consistently ends up with more problems than he started with.

riverszzr

· #3 · Mar 31, 2015

Big or small it is about integrity, skills, accountability, accepting responsibility and doing the right thing...........not about size of the shop....

Anyways...... OP-- it would be far less expensive to repair what you have, via new rings or whatever. As to what could he/they have done wrong- that list is endless.

But a leakdown test is far more telling than a compression test

But do I think the crash played a part- probably not, do I think it sitting for 6 months is the cause, probably not.

What exactly does your receipt say that he did for this 40k service?
Are there any shim clearance numbers? etc...
Were there any noises or what happened, it ran fine then 12 miles later it did what? "takes a dump" is not a description that is useful or helpful

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SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 31, 2015 (Edited)

The quote for the service isn't nearly as detailed as the parts for the body repair.

Line items:
"Quote out 20,000 mile service"
Spark Plugs
Oil/Oil Filter

We spoke about valve adjustment, though the original quote doesn't physically call for it. He told me adjusted them, however. This is the quote, not the invoice... looking for the invoice.

Not very helpful. I am thinking I might need to call up the Kawasaki dealer nearby and have them look. I really didn't like them when they did the 20k mile service (the used an incorrect gasket and somehow managed to get me to pay for the labor to put th eright one in. i hate shops, lol), but my bike still ran for 20,000 after they did it.

As far as indications of trouble:
1) From accident to shop - I honestly think it ran exactly as normal. Plenty of power, despite it dragging plastics I was doing 80mph most the way back and it was singing as usual. This was part of my decision not to total it, as it seemed functionally unaffected by the drop (it was only a 30 mph drop, far from some cataclysmic event)

2) From shop to breakdown - I rode it home (3 miles), to work (8 miles round trip) and tried to go to San Diego. About a mile into the final drive a knock developed, right as I settled into the carpool lane for the drive. The knock rapidly went from barely audible to impossible to miss, and the engine cut out and I had to coast to the side of the road. I briefly tried to start it again and the knock was immediately apparent when it'd try to idle.

The guy at the shop actually claimed when I picked it up that he heard some sort of noise, and he suspected the "cam tensioner", if I recall correctly. He tried to point the noise out to me but I honestly never heard it. This was before I put any of the 12 miles on it. He told me to put 100 miles on it or so and bring it back to see how it was doing.

edit: redacted invoice attached

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40acres

· #5 · Mar 31, 2015

SadbutTrue said:
The quote for the service isn't nearly as detailed as the parts for the body repair.

Line items:
"Quote out 20,000 mile service"
Spark Plugs
Oil/Oil Filter

We spoke about valve adjustment, though the original quote doesn't physically call for it. He told me adjusted them, however. This is the quote, not the invoice... looking for the invoice.

Not very helpful. I am thinking I might need to call up the Kawasaki dealer nearby and have them look. I really didn't like them when they did the 20k mile service (the used an incorrect gasket and somehow managed to get me to pay for the labor to put th eright one in. i hate shops, lol), but my bike still ran for 20,000 after they did it.

As far as indications of trouble:
1) From accident to shop - I honestly think it ran exactly as normal. Plenty of power, despite it dragging plastics I was doing 80mph most the way back and it was singing as usual. This was part of my decision not to total it, as it seemed functionally unaffected by the drop (it was only a 30 mph drop, far from some cataclysmic event)

2) From shop to breakdown - I rode it home (3 miles), to work (8 miles round trip) and tried to go to San Diego. About a mile into the final drive a knock developed, right as I settled into the carpool lane for the drive. The knock rapidly went from barely audible to impossible to miss, and the engine cut out and I had to coast to the side of the road. I briefly tried to start it again and the knock was immediately apparent when it'd try to idle.

The guy at the shop actually claimed when I picked it up that he heard some sort of noise, and he suspected the "cam tensioner", if I recall correctly. He tried to point the noise out to me but I honestly never heard it. This was before I put any of the 12 miles on it. He told me to put 100 miles on it or so and bring it back to see how it was doing.

So, all they did was change the plugs and oil/filter? Have you contacted them about this issue? If so, what did they tell you?

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 31, 2015

The bike is currently at the shop, where they did the post-problem compression test. So they know about the issue. LIke I said in the first post, the shop claims the damage is unrelated to the service and he suspects an issue with the rings, connecting rods, pistons, etc. He says the valvetrain "looks fine"

I attached the exact invoice above. He claimed he did a compression test when it was serviced that showed 140psi on all cylinders. Whether he did or not... I don't know.

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #7 · Mar 31, 2015 (Edited)

There are some other "forgetful" items on this list, as I look. He didn't hook up my turn signals after reinstalling the plastics and also did not bleed brakes. If he can forget those things...

If a shop was to do rings/etc... how much would that run, normally?

riverszzr

· #8 · Mar 31, 2015

So......... if you look at the service manual of what exactly gets done in the 20,ooo mile service.

oil/filter is about it!

everything else is just cursory looks that anyone would normally do before riding......

So I would be willing to bet, that is all you got! and the guy/place is full of shit and "stole" $400 for an oil change

So this knock, I doubt the cam chain tensioner would suddenly be so obvious and "knock"

I wonder if they ran it with no oil or something stupid and then realized no oil (or no oil pressure from an air lock in the new filter) and it spun a rod bearing?

Did you notice at all where the knock seemed to come from, top, bottom, right, left?

Tell me you did not take it back to the same place that did this and plan to pay them anything to fix it....

As far as your question as to cost, that depends on how bad it is and what it needs... Doubtful you will walk out of anywhere for under $1000 parts/labor and it easily could be more

R&R engine and disassemble-clean-repair-assemble.........you got 10 hours minimum right there depending on what needs to be done

and parts ain't cheap---I posted up prices on 5/06 parts in another thread

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SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 31, 2015

Well, I had the valve clearance/valve adjustment done at 22k-24k; was told the valves wer ea bit "tight" (but ok), and to do the next one slightly earlier. 40k is 16-18k, so it seemed to make sense.

I did call the Kawasaki dealer and he basically said he didn't want to touch it. Also had some generally bad things to say about kawasaki motors (which I actually kind of recalled from the last time I went there for that earlier maintenance)

riverszzr

· #10 · Mar 31, 2015

SadbutTrue said:
Well, I had the valve clearance/valve adjustment done at 22k-24k; was told the valves wer ea bit "tight" (but ok), and to do the next one slightly earlier. 40k is 16-18k, so it seemed to make sense.

I did call the Kawasaki dealer and he basically said he didn't want to touch it. Also had some generally bad things to say about kawasaki motors (which I actually kind of recalled from the last time I went there for that earlier maintenance)

WTF..........so the Kawi dealer doesn't want to work on Kawi bikes? fuck them---call Kawasaki corporate and let them know~ they will set you up with better info and push the process along too~ at a better dealership

Attn: Consumer Services
Kawasaki Motors Corp., U.S.A.
P.O. Box 25252
Santa Ana, CA 92799-5252
866-802-9381

I would be all over yanking their dealership status, fucking retards!

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SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 31, 2015

i'll give them a ring, maybe they'll also have a dealer or two to recommend

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 31, 2015 (Edited)

minor update, went by the shop during my midday jog... he agreed to drop the pan and actually look at the rods/rings and see if there was any debris. We drained the oil (he hadn't previously), and while it was darker-than-brand new... there wasn't much in the way of debris that i could find.

Did find this one flake, though. Seemed to stick to magnet we used, though not strongly (could have just been sticky instead of magnetic). Nickel if i were to guess.

Apologies, its the best my htc one m8 culd do. Looking for a better camera now lol

(note: i just went through a tossed rod with a 66' Mustang, my basis of "Not too much in the way of debris" is based on my experience there, where there was a literal pile of debris. I understand its a bigger motor with more iron/steel in it, thats just my frame of reference)

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riverszzr

· #13 · Mar 31, 2015

picture is too blurry---but that is a sizeable piece of something..........dissect the oil filter would be more telling

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 31, 2015

yeah, only thought to ask for the oil filter after i go tback. d'oh! i'll try to get it tomorrow

and yes, that picture is not helping anyone, sorry about that. will attempt to improve tomorrow

oldninjadude

· #15 · Apr 1, 2015

Your best bet is to replace the rings & do the work yourself.
I was facing a similar task with my bike & found a motor for $610. so I got it.
I still plan to put rings in my old motor, but I can take my time with it.

You could pick up a used motor for your bike, But there going to start around a grand & up.
Then you still don't know what your getting, I've still got my fingers crossed over the one I got.
Whatever you do don't give that shop another $.

oldninjadude

· #16 · Apr 1, 2015

What did they charge you to check the valves that they said were a bit tight but good enough??

oldninjadude

· #17 · Apr 1, 2015 (Edited)

Something to consider.....

05 Kawasaki Ninja zx6r ZX 6RR ZX 6R Engine Motor 4B | eBay

05 06 Kawasaki Ninja ZX636 ZX6RR Engine Motor Complete 12 | eBay

riverszzr

· #18 · Apr 1, 2015

One of those linked engines is a 599cc and the other 636cc and they are both way overpriced for what they are.

As far as what they charged him, his receipt shows $400 for an oil change and new plugs and supposedly/possibly ~ but highly unlikely~ they checked the valve clearances......... I would lay money on the fact the valve cover was never removed !!

They simply gloss over the fact the "20,000 mile service" doesn't include dick shit.... and only say anything about the valves to him in person- when he asked....

They screwed the OP!! plain and simple~ writing is in great big neon letters all over the wall. Then pile on that the local Kawi dealer want's nothing to do with the bike......more BS....

If it were December or Jan I would do the damn thing for free if he would have gotten it here, just to have something to do and keep someone from being totally fucked over

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SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #19 · Apr 1, 2015

oldninjadude said:
What did they charge you to check the valves that they said were a bit tight but good enough??

Sorry if my story line was confusing.

THe shop that told me my valves were tight was the Anaheim Honda/Kawasaki shop that did my service at 22k, not the guys that just did my 40k service. That dealer told me my valves were tight because i had taken the bike a little farther past the valve check service than ideal, and they adjusted them to spec (though they were dicks about Kawasakis then and apparently that continues to this day, as the guy I talked to on the phone yesterda maintained that attitude). That service was roughly $550 which included valve check and adjustment.

SadbutTrue

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 1, 2015

riverszzr said:
One of those linked engines is a 599cc and the other 636cc and they are both way overpriced for what they are.

As far as what they charged him, his receipt shows $400 for an oil change and new plugs and supposedly/possibly ~ but highly unlikely~ they checked the valve clearances......... I would lay money on the fact the valve cover was never removed !!

They simply gloss over the fact the "20,000 mile service" doesn't include dick shit.... and only say anything about the valves to him in person- when he asked....

They screwed the OP!! plain and simple~ writing is in great big neon letters all over the wall. Then pile on that the local Kawi dealer want's nothing to do with the bike......more BS....

If it were December or Jan I would do the damn thing for free if he would have gotten it here, just to have something to do and keep someone from being totally fucked over

Honestly... when I looked at it yesterday, I'm fairly certain the oil filter is the same one I had on there pre-all of this mess.

Not sure how I'd prove it so I haven't brought it up.

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