[Ridgedawg88]

Hi all. This is my first post. I'm new to Kawasaki, new to this forum, and new to the ZX6R, but not new to this planet.

About the bike:

It's an 05 ZX6R with ~35,000 miles. I've owned it since late October but have only ridden it twice due to the weather. It has been stored in my heated basement all winter with the gas tank drained (I'll explain later).

So the first time I rode the bike I put on 20 miles or so to get a feel for it before I decided to open her up and see what she had. I've owned several CBR 600s, an 05 GSXR 750, and currently have an 04 R6 as well. This is the SLOWEST bike I've ever owned. But I don't think it's the bike's fault. It wouldn't rev past about 8,000 RPMs. I immediately came home and started researching. I looked into the kickstand switch/sensor issue, but quickly found that the bypass mod had already been done on this bike. Looked like it was done well too. The next suggestion that seemed to make sense was the fuel pump. Soooo... knowing that I wouldn't be riding it, and that I'd eventually be putting a new pump in it this winter, I drained the tank. And that's how it sat from December until last weekend when I got the new pump.

I installed the new pump and dry tested it out of the tank. It worked. I installed it, put the tank back on the bike, put gas in it, and went to start the bike. The pump wouldn't cycle. Long story short, it blew the ECU fuse. I drained the tank, pulled the pump, and rewired it two more times before it stopped shorting out that fuse. So anyway, now it works.

The pump is in the tank with a full tank of gas and I can hear it cycle when I turn the key on. But the bike just cranks and cranks and will not start. I've drained the battery twice trying to get it going. I pulled the fuel line off and ran a rubber hose from the nipple into a bottle to make sure it was actually pumping fuel and not just making noise. It is. Next I pulled the line off where it meets the fuel rail. It has gas there too.

Tonight I took the air cleaner assembly off, checked all the vacuum lines, checked to make sure everything was connected, pulled out and inspected the three spark plugs I could get too....everything looks good.

So I put it all back together again. Still nothing. Everything cycles appropriately when you turn the key on. The display goes through its normal progression, the fuel pump cycles, and the thing cranks over very healthy. It just won't start. And I'm out of ideas.

I've checked all of the fuses as well as the 30 amp fuse in the relay beside the battery.

All hoses are connected.
All connections are connected.
All vacuum lines are connected.
Battery is stout and on a tender.

PLEASE HELP!

Oh...it's worth noting that this bike seems to have had every mod known to man done to it. Slip on, servo buddy, HID headlights, aftermarket tail lights, sprockets, total paint/decal job, windscreen, etc., ...it even had the jumper mod (which I discovered and removed tonight while trouble shooting).

PS: If anyone wants this damn thing, you can have it as it sits for $2700. Just sayin'..

 

[40acres]

FYI, that fairing/decal job was done by a little china-man in Guangzhou, China.

Now, you mentioned it was an '05 so are you aware of whether or not the ECU had been swapped by the PO? That specific year was notorious for frying ECU's and fixed by replacing it with an ECU from an '06. It doesn't seem like this is your issue as it ran just fine before. Are you positive you're getting spark? The bike needs air/fuel/spark to start obviously so I'd start with the spark because you're obviously getting air and fuel. Try testing the coil and the R/R and see if that doesn't bring an issue to the surface.

Edit:
I just went through your post again and noticed that you mentioned the bike wouldn't rev past 8k. The ECU could very well be your problem. There's no way to really test the ECU so hopefully you have someone locally that is willing to swap with you to test this theory or just she'll out the cash for an '06 ECU on eBay.

 

[Scorpi0]

Do u have ur tip over sensor plugged in? Is it installed in its correct position? If not...that could be ur problem.

Its located under the front seat..attached to the aluminum bracket.

 

[40acres]

Do u have ur tip over sensor plugged in? Is it installed in its correct position? If not...that could be ur problem.

Its located under the front seat..attached to the aluminum bracket.

Damn it, missed that one!

 

[Ridgedawg88]

Do u have ur tip over sensor plugged in? Is it installed in its correct position? If not...that could be ur problem.

Its located under the front seat..attached to the aluminum bracket.

Is this it? I was really hoping it was going to be a simple explanation like that, but if this is it, I think it's installed properly. (I disconnected the fuel pump to get a better pic of the sensor...I haven't been trouble shooting with it disconnected).

40acres: Where is the ECU located? I have no idea if one of the MANY prior owners (I think there were like 7?) replaced the ECU. That said, I'm pretty sure the fuel pump had already been replaced at some point because one of the plastic brackets had a bit of damage and it wasn't wired up the way it would've been from the factory. That's why I had to rewire it three times. I'd taken pics of the way it was wired when I pulled it out, and then I rewired it the same way. After blowing the fuse twice, I did some online research and saw pics of OEM fuel pumps that were wired differently. They had different connectors too.

Doesn't it seem odd that it would start up and run fine(other than the 8,000RPM cut-off) before pulling the pump and then just not run afterwards if the ECU was the problem, though?

I'm thinking this new pump isn't putting enough fuel pressure to the injectors. After unplugging and replugging the tip over sensor, I tried to start it up. But this time I didn't pause every 4 seconds or so. I just kept cranking...and kept making the fuel pump work. For the first time since I replaced the pump, I got a few "woofs" ...like it was thinking about starting up. But it still didn't.

PS: How do you know who did the graphics?

 

[Scorpi0]

Yup thats the tip sensor and it looks like its plugged in. When mine was unplugged I kept cranking and it would turn over and sound like it wanted to start but never would. Took me about 10 mins to realize what it was haha.

Just to be safe... I would remove the tip sensor and give it a good shake and put it back in.

But before u do that...get a can of starter fluid. Spray it into the intake as u keep cranking. If it starts, then u have a fuel issue.

 

[Ridgedawg88]

Yup thats the tip sensor and it looks like its plugged in. When mine was unplugged I kept cranking and it would turn over and sound like it wanted to start but never would. Took me about 10 mins to realize what it was haha.

Just to be safe... I would remove the tip sensor and give it a good shake and put it back in.

But before u do that...get a can of starter fluid. Spray it into the intake as u keep cranking. If it starts, then u have a fuel issue.

That's an excellent suggestion. I was actually thinking about doing that anyway. I'll buy a can of starter fluid tomorrow.

I'm also going to head down, remove the Vehicle Down Sensor, and give it a shake. If it works, I'll be sure to let you know. lol

If neither of those work, what are your thoughts on the possibility of it being the ECU? Because I found one that came off a low mileage 06 for $90. That seems like a really good price.

EDIT: I took the sensor off, shook it around, reinstalled it...nothing. I'll get the starter fluid tomorrow..

 

[laggy311]

That's an excellent suggestion. I was actually thinking about doing that anyway. I'll buy a can of starter fluid tomorrow.

I'm also going to head down, remove the Vehicle Down Sensor, and give it a shake. If it works, I'll be sure to let you know. lol

If neither of those work, what are your thoughts on the possibility of it being the ECU? Because I found one that came off a low mileage 06 for $90. That seems like a really good price.

EDIT: I took the sensor off, shook it around, reinstalled it...nothing. I'll get the starter fluid tomorrow..

Get the ECU. You can always resell it if that's not the problem.

ECU is located moving back from battery and tip sensor and it's slid in a holding area, under next metal cross bracket, angled up towards the tail.

 

[Ridgedawg88]

UPDATE: I put the old pump back in it today and it's doing the exact same thing. It will start with starter fluid, so I know it's getting spark. And I know both fuel pumps at least work because I can hear them both run and I witnessed the brand new one pump fuel into a bucket. So I'm narrowing it down.

Someone I know suggested the throttle position sensor. He said it can be reset. I'm waiting for instructions on how to reset it.

You're right, laggy. I just ordered the ECU. Its off an 06 zx6r with 6,408 miles on it. Says it was a running bike and that the ECU has been tested. Fingers crossed that this is the problem. And thanks for the pic.

 

[laggy311]

No prob.

Can anyone comment on a possible crankshaft position sensor issue? I know on a car it will cause engine to crank but not turnover/start. Just throwing that out there.

To ridgedawg, I'm sure you could test that with a DMM. As well as TPS.

 

[Ridgedawg88]

UPDATE (for anyone who has this issue in the future): It was the battery. I really don't get it, though. The battery was solid and strong. There were no indications whatsoever that the battery was even slightly low. It cranked the bike over like a champ. But tonight someone I know suggested it and I figured what the heck....so I swapped in the battery from my R6. The ZX6R fired right up.

And now I have the old fuel pump back in it so I'm going to have to take that back out AGAIN (for like the 4th f'n time) to see if the pump is the reason it won't rev past 8,000RPMs. Ya know...the original problem. Good times.

 

[zx6ixxer]

I have to say Ridgedawg88....props for coming back and posting your solution. Can't tell you how many times I have done google searched on issues and find threads/posts on random forums with the same issue...but usually it dies and nobody posted the solution.

Glad you found the fix! I too find it weird that you tested voltage and your battery "Seemed" fine until you swapped. Glad it worked now get to cleaning out that fuel pump

 

[laggy311]

Taking a charge and holding a charge are 2 very different things, apparently.

 

[Scorpi0]

Now that u mention the problem was the battery, I do remember many people having the same exact problem and solution as u did. Bike will crank and not start = try a new battery first!

 

[Ridgedawg88]

This freakin' bike is going to be the death of me. So it will start now with the R6 battery. Funny thing is that my R6 starts and runs just fine with the battery I took out of the ZX6R.

Anyway...new problem. I didn't let the bike run very long last night after starting it up because it's being stored in my basement and the fumes are awful. Today I pushed it outside. I wanted to see if the revving issue was still there before swapping the fuel pumps again. So I started the bike up. It started a little slow. After about 30 seconds of idling, it stalled out. I restarted it. It ran for maybe 10 seconds and stalled out. Repeat process 3 or 4 times and eventually it would start and then immediately stall out. If I gave it ANY throttle at all, it would stall immediately. Yes, of course I was pissed the f off. I have no idea what the NEW problem is.

The 06 ECU is in the mail so I decided I might as well take the tail off in preparation for swapping them out when it gets here. So I took it off and lo and behold, this thing has a Power Commander II. It was covered in dust and I wanted to know if it was actually functioning so I turned the key on and watched it go through it's little light show. By this time it had been about a half hour since the bike last stalled out. I started it up and it RIPPED to life! I couldn't freakin' believe how fast it started up. And it revved all the way to redline. Once. Then it quickly started to sputter and stalled out after running for a total of maybe 30 seconds.

Does anyone have a f'n clue what the hell is wrong with my bike? This shit is getting old. I'm REALLY hoping it's the ECU.

And zx6ixxer -Yeah, most of the threads I've found in my research have ended exactly as you stated: with no solution posted. If I figure out what the original issue is with mine, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

 

[zx6ixxer]

This freakin' bike is going to be the death of me. So it will start now with the R6 battery. Funny thing is that my R6 starts and runs just fine with the battery I took out of the ZX6R.

Anyway...new problem. I didn't let the bike run very long last night after starting it up because it's being stored in my basement and the fumes are awful. Today I pushed it outside. I wanted to see if the revving issue was still there before swapping the fuel pumps again. So I started the bike up. It started a little slow. After about 30 seconds of idling, it stalled out. I restarted it. It ran for maybe 10 seconds and stalled out. Repeat process 3 or 4 times and eventually it would start and then immediately stall out. If I gave it ANY throttle at all, it would stall immediately. Yes, of course I was pissed the f off. I have no idea what the NEW problem is.

The 06 ECU is in the mail so I decided I might as well take the tail off in preparation for swapping them out when it gets here. So I took it off and lo and behold, this thing has a Power Commander II. It was covered in dust and I wanted to know if it was actually functioning so I turned the key on and watched it go through it's little light show. By this time it had been about a half hour since the bike last stalled out. I started it up and it RIPPED to life! I couldn't freakin' believe how fast it started up. And it revved all the way to redline. Once. Then it quickly started to sputter and stalled out after running for a total of maybe 30 seconds.

Does anyone have a f'n clue what the hell is wrong with my bike? This shit is getting old. I'm REALLY hoping it's the ECU.

And zx6ixxer -Yeah, most of the threads I've found in my research have ended exactly as you stated: with no solution posted. If I figure out what the original issue is with mine, I'll be sure to let everyone know.

Odd...I recall with mine I went out to start my bike in the morning and came back out 5 minutes later and bike was off....I started it and about 5-10 seconds in stalled out...started and it wouldnt stay on..almost like fuel starvation. That night I drained the gas, pulled apart the fuel pump and cleaned it out. Reinstalled everything and she fired up nice and crisp...:O

Sounds like these issues are definitely stemming from your fuel pump?

Edit: I know you mentioned a few times you swapped out fuel pumps to trouble shoot...but did you actually take apart the fuel pump to clean out the fuel filter inside? (Sorry if you have done this already)

If you decide to clean it use these links below as a reference...very detailed and worked for me
http://zx6r.com/guides/24381-how-service-fuel-pump-strainer.html

http://www.kawiforums.com/how-tos-faqs/194733-how-inspect-clean-fuel-filter-05-06-zx6r-636-a.html

 

[laggy311]

Where is Rivers when you need him...

 

[NitrusReigns]

I didn't let the bike run very long last night after starting it up because it's being stored in my basement and the fumes are awful. Today I pushed it outside. I wanted to see if the revving issue was still there before swapping the fuel pumps again. So I started the bike up. It started a little slow. After about 30 seconds of idling, it stalled out. I restarted it. It ran for maybe 10 seconds and stalled out. Repeat process 3 or 4 times and eventually it would start and then immediately stall out. If I gave it ANY throttle at all, it would stall immediately. Yes, of course I was pissed the f off. I have no idea what the NEW problem is.

The 06 ECU is in the mail so I decided I might as well take the tail off in preparation for swapping them out when it gets here. So I took it off and lo and behold, this thing has a Power Commander II. It was covered in dust and I wanted to know if it was actually functioning so I turned the key on and watched it go through it's little light show. By this time it had been about a half hour since the bike last stalled out. I started it up and it RIPPED to life! I couldn't freakin' believe how fast it started up. And it revved all the way to redline. Once. Then it quickly started to sputter and stalled out after running for a total of maybe 30 seconds.

Couple of questions for you:

1) After finding the PCII installed, did you remove it? If you didn't, you should!
2) When you started it and it ran last, you used the throttle to get it to redline, I assmue? It didn't just do that on it's own, I hope?
3) Sorry if you've answered this one already, but did you connect either/both of the pumps to 12v DC to see if they pump properly outside of the circuitry of the rest of the bike?
4) (not a question) The bolded portion that I quoted sounds very typical of a bad fuel pump. I've had that in a few cars and two bikes and that's what's happened in most of the cases (those were the slow fail cases as opposed to the catastrophic fail ones)

Hopefully this helps and hopefully your answers to the questions will help us continue to help you. Good luck

 

[Ridgedawg88]

zx6ixxer: Thanks for the links! I'd seen the first one. I had not seen the second one. That guy's sump/strainer/pump were a mess. Damn. I wish I'd seen that second link before I completed the task because I would've noticed that mine had been wired improperly when I first took it out. Eventually I figured it out, but the pics that guy posted would've been very useful.

FWIW, my strainer was relatively clean and my sump was sparkling clean. But I shook the pump and kept getting dirty gas out of it. I shook as much out as I could and think I got most of it but I thought that was strange.

I need to just bite the bullet and put the new pump back in. I'll probably do that this weekend...even if the new ECU corrects the problem. Hopefully it will be here tomorrow night.

NitrusReigns:

1. I did not disconnect the PCII. I thought about it but once you disconnect it you'll be left with a bunch of injector plugs and no map for reconnecting them. Know what I mean? I'm not sure which connectors to plug back into each other and it seems plugging them in incorrectly could cause me serious problems. No?

2. Yes, I used the throttle to rev it to redline that one time.

3. I did not check to see if the pumps worked correctly on their own power supply but I did plug them into the bike's wiring harness and check to make sure they were both priming before installing them inside the tank. I have no way of checking their pressures, though.

It sounds to me like I might have more than one problem. But I do have one brand new fuel pump so I should probably put it back in and go from there.

Thanks to all of you for all of the help. It is certainly appreciated. I'll update after the ECU arrives.

 

[NitrusReigns]

1. I did not disconnect the PCII. I thought about it but once you disconnect it you'll be left with a bunch of injector plugs and no map for reconnecting them. Know what I mean? I'm not sure which connectors to plug back into each other and it seems plugging them in incorrectly could cause me serious problems. No?

Yes, you will definitely want to put them back together correctly, but you should be able to find that info without too much trouble. I'll even do a little looking for you because I removed mine when I bought the bike and got it figured out pretty quickly and easily.

I think it would be a good idea to remove simply because it's one added layer of complication. If you've got a fuel delivery issue, who's to say that the aftermarket fuel controller isn't causing the issue?

2. Yes, I used the throttle to rev it to redline that one time.

Obviously good...I assumed this, but seemed worth asking anyway.

3. I did not check to see if the pumps worked correctly on their own power supply but I did plug them into the bike's wiring harness and check to make sure they were both priming before installing them inside the tank. I have no way of checking their pressures, though.

This is easy enough to do that I see absolutely no reason not to do it. You're definitely not supposed to just do it with gasoline as it's a fire hazard, so I'm not telling you to do that............but I have numerous times. Again, easy way to rule out a potential problem. (well, probably - might not be obvious if it's not fully dead and if you don't know how much gas it should be pushing :O)

It sounds to me like I might have more than one problem. But I do have one brand new fuel pump so I should probably put it back in and go from there.

Thanks to all of you for all of the help. It is certainly appreciated. I'll update after the ECU arrives.

^See annotations above^