Have a quick easy question; 636 legality in racing - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 10-07-2019, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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I Ride: 2007 V-Star 1300, 2014 ZX-6R, 1986 Yamaha YZ250 (bored & stroked - 2 stroke)
So I have a 2014 636. I know all racing circuits/organizations are different, but when I'm watching the Supersport races, my favorite, like in WSBK, MotoAmerica, BSB, Isle of Man and even CMRA, etc... Am I rooting for my 2013+ 636 or am I rooting for a 2012 599cc or homogenized special 2018 or 2019 599cc? I know it's legal in atleast some racing circuits, but what makes it legal as I know they put restrictions on the Triumph 675 & 636. One of them is a minimum weight & possibly fuel tank size?

And IF I ever race, it would be at the lowest Amatuer levels unless things drastically changed in my life, would I be able to race my 2014 636 ABS? I've put ALOT of money into it, about $7500-$8000, and have plans on doing some engine work...

Like installing my Kawasaki Racing .50" Thin Head Gasket (thinking about buying a .45" instead,) Port & Polishing my heads, $1000 Camshaft Regrind by WebCam which requires High Performance Valve Springs, Lifters & High Compression Pistons (haven't asked thrm if a Thin Head Gasket can substitute for the unavailable HC Pistons yet,) E-85 Conversion (haven't figured out what's all needed & where to get it from, yet) and even though I know this isn't race legal, a compact Water-Meth Injection System.
Everytime I think about the total cost of what all of this takes and add it to how much I've invested already, I remind myself I need to stop or I'll never get my $25k 2020 Aprilia RSV4 1100 Factory (in addition to, not in place of my ZX6R)

So I just want to know if the reason why the ZX6R I'm seeing on TV is getting passed in the top end on the straights or digging in & pulling away on corner exit is because of that strong low & mid-range 636 motor...

2014 ZX-6R 636: M4 Street Slayer Exhaust, FlashTune Bike Tuning Kit, Bazzaz Z-Fi, Z-AFM, MJS Headers, K&N Race Air Filter, RaceTech Gold Valve Fork Kit w/ Bottom & Top-Out Mod, reshimmed & RT Fork Springs, RaceTech Gold Valve Shock w/ Refreshed internals & RT Powdercoated Lime Green Spring, D.I.D Gold Chain, Vortex -1 front sprocket, PMP Sprockets Anodized Green +2 rear aluminum sprocket (-1/+2), GPVR4, Fender Eliminator Kit, MotoDynamics Smoked Integrated LED Taillight, '13 Lower Green Fairings, R6 Throttle Tube, Pro Grip Padded Tank Pad, Stomp Grip Clear Tank Pads, Pazzo IFX Candy Green Shorty Levers, Raskal Graffiks Wheel Decals, Puig Double Bubble Dark Smoke Windscreen, Driven Block-Off Plates, Driven Gold Spools, Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 Bi-Xenon Projectors, Morimoto 5Five 50w 6000k HID's, (6) Morimoto XC RGB Angel Eyes, Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa's, etc...

Last edited by Texas636; 10-07-2019 at 02:10 PM.
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post #2 of 14 Old 10-07-2019, 06:21 PM
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The 636 is legal to run in Motoamerica with no restrictions. It is also legal in every club in the US. I believe World Supersport still uses the 2012 bike as that is what the rules allow.

As far as club racing goes. At my local club, Their are classes within each weight class of bike. Supersport, superbike, and grand prix.

In the supersport class you can change internal parts in the forks, the rear shock, and add basic bolt on parts to the engine (exhaust, air filter, fuel controller, etc.). This is the class of bike almost everyone has (or says they have) so that they can run as many races as possible. This is the lowest spec of bike so if you have a supersport bike you can ride it in the superbike and grand prix races which are different races run at different times.

If your bike has any kind of engine work done to it, it is now in the superbike class. If you change the wheels to anything other than oem ZX6, its a superbike. If you change the swingarm, its a superbike. If you change the injectors, its a superbike. You get the idea?

Grand prix is basically the same thing as superbike, except their are literally almost no rules. If you had a moto 2 bike, this is the class you would run it in. Supersport and superbike are for bikes that were once sold as road legal machines to the public.

Class structures are different for most clubs. If you are serious about wanting to race, which I would highly recommend doing because it is fun as shit, lookup your local clubs rulebook and start reading.
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Last edited by zx6rguiy; 10-07-2019 at 06:27 PM.
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post #3 of 14 Old 10-07-2019, 07:08 PM
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Check with whatever racing organization you plan to race with!
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Stupid people say stupid things on the internet, so be wary of who those people are. If you solicit advice on the internet, just keep in mind 99% of what you'll receive is not based on fact or science-and likely atleast 95% of it is based on bullshit and bravado regurgitated from some other schlub who also did not experience any of what they claim and are also full of shit. If you don't like my bluntness- too bad. I am not here to please you, so move along, your approval is not desired nor is it needed. So before opening your pie hole and adding more stupidity, perhaps sit back, listen, absorb and learn something. You know that saying, it is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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post #4 of 14 Old 10-07-2019, 07:47 PM
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post #5 of 14 Old 10-10-2019, 05:38 PM
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Your 2014 ZX-6R is plenty fast in stock form. It is even faster with just race rubber. It is faster still with a properly tuned suspension. Until you are at the limits of the machine with those two simple mods ...... you are probably the bottle neck, not the bike.


It is your money, and you can do with it what you want, but you should be better served by spending it on 1) fees to actually get on the track (track day, practice, race, etc.), 2) tires, and 3) suspension.


Money can be spent all kinds of different ways that do not make you faster. A few examples are paint jobs, shiny things, carbon things, engine mods, exhaust pipes.


I highly suggest getting on the track ....... road racing is still THE MOST EXCITING thing that I have done so far in life.
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post #6 of 14 Old 10-10-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas636 View Post
So I have a 2014 636. I know all racing circuits/organizations are different, but when I'm watching the Supersport races, my favorite, like in WSBK, MotoAmerica, BSB, Isle of Man and even CMRA, etc... Am I rooting for my 2013+ 636 or am I rooting for a 2012 599cc or homogenized special 2018 or 2019 599cc? I know it's legal in atleast some racing circuits, but what makes it legal as I know they put restrictions on the Triumph 675 & 636. One of them is a minimum weight & possibly fuel tank size?

And IF I ever race, it would be at the lowest Amatuer levels unless things drastically changed in my life, would I be able to race my 2014 636 ABS? I've put ALOT of money into it, about $7500-$8000, and have plans on doing some engine work...

Like installing my Kawasaki Racing .50" Thin Head Gasket (thinking about buying a .45" instead,) Port & Polishing my heads, $1000 Camshaft Regrind by WebCam which requires High Performance Valve Springs, Lifters & High Compression Pistons (haven't asked thrm if a Thin Head Gasket can substitute for the unavailable HC Pistons yet,) E-85 Conversion (haven't figured out what's all needed & where to get it from, yet) and even though I know this isn't race legal, a compact Water-Meth Injection System.
Everytime I think about the total cost of what all of this takes and add it to how much I've invested already, I remind myself I need to stop or I'll never get my $25k 2020 Aprilia RSV4 1100 Factory (in addition to, not in place of my ZX6R)

So I just want to know if the reason why the ZX6R I'm seeing on TV is getting passed in the top end on the straights or digging in & pulling away on corner exit is because of that strong low & mid-range 636 motor...
I agree with the guys above. First off regarding classes, I believe WSS is the only one that doesn't allow the 636 and they still use the previous gen. Here in the US, the 636 can compete with no restrictions from the factory. If you've never raced before, let alone done a bunch of track days, don't even touch the engine. Let it be as it is and spend your money on track days, race fees, tires, brakes, suspensions, etc. Engine should be last, when you're an expert racer and fighting for podiums in said expert races.

I see you're in Enid, OK...which means your home track is Hallett. That is not even much of a power track, it's short and technical. CMRA guys are fast there, with top 600s running 1:16-1:17s. Until you can break 1:19s there, you shouldn't even consider engine mods. Most guys that do track days there and run in the advance group can't even get in the low 1:20s (myself included back when I lived in that area, although I was slower than now). As a comparison, Rocco Landers, the 14-year old who won the Junior Cup this year ran a 1:20.0 on his 400 there!! Which is insanely fast and proves you don't need much power to go fast around there.
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post #7 of 14 Old 10-19-2019, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx6r997 View Post
Your 2014 ZX-6R is plenty fast in stock form. It is even faster with just race rubber. It is faster still with a properly tuned suspension. Until you are at the limits of the machine with those two simple mods ...... you are probably the bottle neck, not the bike.


It is your money, and you can do with it what you want, but you should be better served by spending it on 1) fees to actually get on the track (track day, practice, race, etc.), 2) tires, and 3) suspension.


Money can be spent all kinds of different ways that do not make you faster. A few examples are paint jobs, shiny things, carbon things, engine mods, exhaust pipes.


I highly suggest getting on the track ....... road racing is still THE MOST EXCITING thing that I have done so far in life.

I'm not doing the mods to gain me a competitive edge on the track, whether it's racing or a track day. It's more for just.. Me.. On the street. I have a *knack* I guess for wanting to do unlock some power on my bike that's been held back. Seems like every bike out there has all of these aftermarket parts for those bikes, including internal parts, like Pistons, rockers, valve springs, Injectors, Cams, aftermarket heads, aftermarket titanium headers (just the header, not the full kit,) Veramic bearings for the Transmission, etc... There are no parts like these for the 2013+ bike, except ceramic bearings.. I can get my 2 stock cams regrinded, but that's more of a service, not a product.

And the Stage 3 REGRIND requires no available High Compression Pistons, No Available High Performance Valves & Valve Springs....

My bike has always been the fastest "600" while out riding with friends around town, but there are new bikes out that have upped their game like the R6.. Motor is the same, but everything else has been changed & its faster.

I'm just wanting to achieve 135-140rwhp RELIABLY. While doing my first set of track days, I'll probably put my bike in "B" Mode anyway with retarded timing & just 91 octane fuel.

Just got a little bored with how quock it is and im not in the position yet to buy my 2020 Aprilia. RSV4 1100 Factory, yet.
So just came, customs of I can find them, connecting rods if I can find them (because they are the weak part of this engine,) my .50" Kawasaki Racing Thin Head Gasket to raise my stock compression from 12.8:1 to 14.0:1.
Then Port & Polish my heads
And Stage II or Stage III Web Cam REGRIND. (!500 difference + HP valve springs, valves, hi comp Pistons (I still need to ask them if my thin head gasket will suffice or if they have one for me.)

That's all. Just a few small things. Nothing bottom end, although I'd love to lighten the entire crankshaft & maybe even finding a striker one that will striroker it to like, a 650 so when i race other Ninja 650's, I'd blow them away. Hiding the extra 2 cylinders off the header pipe behind an R&G Racing Radiator Cover lol

Anyway. Who knows if I'll do anything more than my Yhin Head Gasket & a Stage 1 Porting of my heads, maybe a Stage 1 of Polishing if I have the right tools to do that..

I'm about done with this bike. I need to get a set of Armour Bodies, Pirelli SuperCorsa SP's, track suit, SIDI Boots & I like my current gloves & AGV Corsa "Italy" helmet, but will have to trade it in for another since its getting past its 5 year life. Wish someone would restore these $1000 - $1800 helmets & recertified them. Bought it in Mid 2015. Rode then, rode in 2016, haven't risen in 2017, 2018 & not in 2019. Getting back on in 2020 for sure. So I only have a year & a half, maybe 2 1/2 years max & now my perfectly conditioned helmet with 3500 miles on it, can no longer be used at the track. I'll keep it as my street helmet until i feel that those 5 years of usage has added up.

So.. I'm still waiting in the price of the AGV Pista GP-R Valentino Rossi Tribute to Nicky Hayden Helmet comes down in price.. Sticking highest helmet they have @ $1899

2014 ZX-6R 636: M4 Street Slayer Exhaust, FlashTune Bike Tuning Kit, Bazzaz Z-Fi, Z-AFM, MJS Headers, K&N Race Air Filter, RaceTech Gold Valve Fork Kit w/ Bottom & Top-Out Mod, reshimmed & RT Fork Springs, RaceTech Gold Valve Shock w/ Refreshed internals & RT Powdercoated Lime Green Spring, D.I.D Gold Chain, Vortex -1 front sprocket, PMP Sprockets Anodized Green +2 rear aluminum sprocket (-1/+2), GPVR4, Fender Eliminator Kit, MotoDynamics Smoked Integrated LED Taillight, '13 Lower Green Fairings, R6 Throttle Tube, Pro Grip Padded Tank Pad, Stomp Grip Clear Tank Pads, Pazzo IFX Candy Green Shorty Levers, Raskal Graffiks Wheel Decals, Puig Double Bubble Dark Smoke Windscreen, Driven Block-Off Plates, Driven Gold Spools, Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 Bi-Xenon Projectors, Morimoto 5Five 50w 6000k HID's, (6) Morimoto XC RGB Angel Eyes, Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa's, etc...

Last edited by Texas636; 10-31-2019 at 02:31 AM.
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post #8 of 14 Old 10-19-2019, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Just to reiterate again..
My engine mods aren't all happening now. Only mod that's happening as soon as i can, is the Kawasaki Racing .50" Thin Head Gasket yo increase my super low compression.

The others, are something i want to do to achieve my personal goal of 135-140rwhp RELIABLY. Made that goal long before racing or track days was even an idea.

This is more for cruising around with friends, bragging rights (oh come on, you guys know that shit comes up with your friends) & simply, I just want this bike to be a bit faster.. Fix some of the dips, make the bike actually be USEFULL between 12krpm - red line & not fall flat on its face, forcing you to shortening everytime. Bumping up that mid-range is like adding more better icing on the cake with a layer of icing already on it. Adding power down low, just help getting that honestly & allows you you to maybe... Start in 2nd gear? Or allow you to not downshift so you have all of 3rd gear instead of downshifts, throttle, upshot, throttle.. You know what i mean.

Just like those guys who knew how to squeeze out an extra 5hp by doing this & gribding on that, that eventually became stuff of legends.

Just a few tweaks. Nothing major

2014 ZX-6R 636: M4 Street Slayer Exhaust, FlashTune Bike Tuning Kit, Bazzaz Z-Fi, Z-AFM, MJS Headers, K&N Race Air Filter, RaceTech Gold Valve Fork Kit w/ Bottom & Top-Out Mod, reshimmed & RT Fork Springs, RaceTech Gold Valve Shock w/ Refreshed internals & RT Powdercoated Lime Green Spring, D.I.D Gold Chain, Vortex -1 front sprocket, PMP Sprockets Anodized Green +2 rear aluminum sprocket (-1/+2), GPVR4, Fender Eliminator Kit, MotoDynamics Smoked Integrated LED Taillight, '13 Lower Green Fairings, R6 Throttle Tube, Pro Grip Padded Tank Pad, Stomp Grip Clear Tank Pads, Pazzo IFX Candy Green Shorty Levers, Raskal Graffiks Wheel Decals, Puig Double Bubble Dark Smoke Windscreen, Driven Block-Off Plates, Driven Gold Spools, Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 Bi-Xenon Projectors, Morimoto 5Five 50w 6000k HID's, (6) Morimoto XC RGB Angel Eyes, Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa's, etc...
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-20-2019, 09:02 AM
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Stock for stock, the R6 isn't as fast as the 636. What makes the R6 better track weapon, stock for stock, is the overall package.

The advice you're getting is from people that are in different stages in their riding life. Most of us, myself included, are beyond tinkering with internal motor work to the level you're looking to do just for a street ride. It's a complete waste of money, since you'll never ride hard enough on the street to take full advantage of it anyways.

Do the basics...full exhaust, some type of engine programmer, flash the ECU if you want, custom tune and call it a day. Or spend all that money, notice somewhat of an increase in power, eventually ride someone's ZX10/R1...then end up selling the 636 for a ZX10. LOL
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post #10 of 14 Old 10-20-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas636 View Post

Just got a little bored with how quock it is and im not in the position yet to buy my 2020 Aprilia. RSV4 1100 Factory, yet.
I can save you lots of money and will trade you my 2013 RSV4 APRC for your ZX6R, with probably not much cash on the side, depending on the current state of your bike
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post #11 of 14 Old 10-20-2019, 02:25 PM
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I'm so confused on your postings. A couple of years ago you were building this high powered rocket ZX6. Then nothing. A few months ago you had the 200mph 140whp zx6 with no details.

Now you're building it again, not building it, doing it in stages, going to race, but not right now, need to buy other stuff, then just cruise the bike for bragging rights. Seriously, your postings are all over the place the last couple of years.

If you do all the stuff you're mentioning more than likely you will have an expensive zx6 you hate. It will have small or major reliability issues or just be a PIA to ride because of fuel issues, tune issues, cooling issues, gasket leaking issues, or whatever. In addition, even after doing all that work a stock liter bike is going to spank your ass and laugh at you for spending all that money to still have a slower bike. I learned a long time ago start with something fast to be fast. In the sportbike straight-line world a 600 class bike is not fast.

Good luck with whatever you do. I hope you achieve whatever goals you have for the bike.

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post #12 of 14 Old 10-20-2019, 03:05 PM
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^^ I figured someone else would say it.....

There's a saying in the equine community --- the best way to end up with $1,000,000? Start with $2,000,000.
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post #13 of 14 Old 10-20-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas636 View Post

Adding power down low, just help getting that honestly & allows you you to maybe... Start in 2nd gear? Or allow you to not downshift so you have all of 3rd gear instead of downshifts, throttle, upshot, throttle.. You know what i mean.
No... We don't know what you mean.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-31-2019, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Man View Post
Stock for stock, the R6 isn't as fast as the 636. What makes the R6 better track weapon, stock for stock, is the overall package.

The advice you're getting is from people that are in different stages in their riding life. Most of us, myself included, are beyond tinkering with internal motor work to the level you're looking to do just for a street ride. It's a complete waste of money, since you'll never ride hard enough on the street to take full advantage of it anyways.

Do the basics...full exhaust, some type of engine programmer, flash the ECU if you want, custom tune and call it a day. Or spend all that money, notice somewhat of an increase in power, eventually ride someone's ZX10/R1...then end up selling the 636 for a ZX10. LOL
Oh, ive already done all of that. FTECU Bike-Side ECU Flashing Kit, K&N Race-Spec Air Filter, Bazzaz Z-Fi, Z-AFM & Dual Map Switch Selector, 15/45t on PMP Aluminum Sprocket, etc..
RaceTech G2-R Gold Valve Fork Kit, RaceTech Fork Springs, RaceTech G2-R Gold Valve Shock Kit, RaceTech Preload Spring Collar, RaceTech Anodized Lime Green Stiffer Shock & Rebound Separator Valve.. All sitting on Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa Tires & a GPVR4 Steeting Damper.
EBC Double-H Sintered Race/Street upgrade pads, etc...
Driven TT Racing Rearsets.


I'm just looking at bumping this up a bit more. The easy obvious stuff that everyone stops at. Obviousely swapping out the head gasket is a cheap & relatively simple task to increase the super low 10.8:1 to 14.0:1 compression ratio. That $65 head gasket alone will give me a 5-10hp gain with tuning just on 93 Octane. I also have a set of velocity stacks from a 2012 ZX-6R.. I may swap those out & see how it changes my power and.. See if it doesn't fall flat on its face after some time on the dyno room tuning for it

Would like to port & polish the intake & heads, do some other changes, just to do it, just to make it faster as I've gotton a lol bored with it. And yes, there's a time & a place on the street to let them open.. Im in North Western Oklahoma currently. Nothing but flat straight highways with little to no vehicles on it at times. We have fun, but safely.

And yes, I go to Hallett once a month to watch. Hang out with a friend there who use to be the Parts Manager @ a Kawasaki dealership in a ZX-10RR, but he has went to Eurotek, so now he rides the new Ducati V4S. But I haven't been there at all this year.
I plan on moving back to Dallas & there are more yhan a few tracks there.

But anyway, I honestly need to just save up my money after my next couple mods, for a set of Armour Bodies, paint, new suit & new AGV Pista GT Nicky Hayden Tribute or AGV Corsa GT, since my AGV Corsa "Italy" graphic has just turned 5 years old.

After that, all of my money will be goung towards saving up for that $25k Aprilia RSV4 1100 Factory + $3k in ECU, Springs, brake pads, etc.. Since the bike already comes with a full Titanium Akrapovic Evolution Carbon Fiber exhaust system.

Once I get this bike, then I will track my bike.. Im too scared to wreck my street bike. I don't want to damage it, not being able to ride at all and killing the value. It's never even been dropped.

I do have a 2007 GSX-R 750 that I have torn apart. Was supposed to be the misses, but she's a whore & no longer my problem. It needs alot & alot of time. Probably be best to put my money into it as it needs fairings, tires, grips, levers, RaceTech G2-R full suspension upgrade & a few engine bolt-ons anyway.

2014 ZX-6R 636: M4 Street Slayer Exhaust, FlashTune Bike Tuning Kit, Bazzaz Z-Fi, Z-AFM, MJS Headers, K&N Race Air Filter, RaceTech Gold Valve Fork Kit w/ Bottom & Top-Out Mod, reshimmed & RT Fork Springs, RaceTech Gold Valve Shock w/ Refreshed internals & RT Powdercoated Lime Green Spring, D.I.D Gold Chain, Vortex -1 front sprocket, PMP Sprockets Anodized Green +2 rear aluminum sprocket (-1/+2), GPVR4, Fender Eliminator Kit, MotoDynamics Smoked Integrated LED Taillight, '13 Lower Green Fairings, R6 Throttle Tube, Pro Grip Padded Tank Pad, Stomp Grip Clear Tank Pads, Pazzo IFX Candy Green Shorty Levers, Raskal Graffiks Wheel Decals, Puig Double Bubble Dark Smoke Windscreen, Driven Block-Off Plates, Driven Gold Spools, Morimoto Mini H1 7.0 Bi-Xenon Projectors, Morimoto 5Five 50w 6000k HID's, (6) Morimoto XC RGB Angel Eyes, Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsa's, etc...
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