Traxxion AK-20 vs GP suspension 25mm - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 07:36 PM
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That's exactly what happened. Cold morning and first lap out, let go of the brake lever a bit too abrupt and the front went away. Since then my approach was to finish my braking before the apex and use maintenance throttle throughout the corner for the most part (depending on the corner). Anyway, obviously it makes sense as to why the front feels so different now, because I'm messing it up!
You control fork rebound with the front brake. If you don't believe me, try this out.

Come to a dead stop from a decent speed (30 MPH or more). Using the front brakes only, apply them, and hold them until you've completely stopped - then completely let off the brake. Do that a few times to get a feel for what the bike is doing.

Now do it again, but slowly release the front brake. Note how your gradual release of the brake is slowing the rebound of the forks.

Mind = blown

(This is how I had a pretty good idea that you weren't trail braking, knowing you're in I group and talking about the front end rebounding on you)

(Hint: Go to YCRS already )
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post #32 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 08:10 PM
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You control fork rebound with the front brake. If you don't believe me, try this out.

Come to a dead stop from a decent speed (30 MPH or more). Using the front brakes only, apply them, and hold them until you've completely stopped - then completely let off the brake. Do that a few times to get a feel for what the bike is doing.

Now do it again, but slowly release the front brake. Note how your gradual release of the brake is slowing the rebound of the forks.

Mind = blown

(This is how I had a pretty good idea that you weren't trail braking, knowing you're in I group and talking about the front end rebounding on you)

(Hint: Go to YCRS already )
^^This is good stuff, and oh so true! I remember a specific case on my ZX6R at Road America going into T5 (slowest turn on track at the end of the 2nd straightaway, braking from about 150 mph to 35ish), for some stupid reason that I can't remember I had a bit of an oh-shit moment and decided to suddenly let off the brakes completely as I was already halfway leaned over for the turn. Guess what happened...fast rebound back up, lightened up the front end, got a little wobbly mid-turn, but luckily didn't crash. I was amazed that I hadn't crashed to be honest, and I think the thing that saved me was the sticky Pirelli front!

I know that wasn't the only time I did that, but I remember that one well cuz it was pretty scary lol Very important to use the front brake effectively to control the way the forks are behaving. Of course that shouldn't mean that you can skip out on setting up the suspensions well, but when a guy on shitty bone stock forks on a ninja 300 which are like noodles is going lap record pace (for that class), you know a LOT of the work is being done by the right hand, not by fancy aftermarket parts
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post #33 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 10:09 PM
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I thought this was a pretty informative video by Dave Moss. Basically comparing two methods of settling the chassis and increasing the front contact patch in turns. Each method, " brake-turn-gas(trail braking) vs Brake-gas-turn" is useful depending on the type of corner.


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post #34 of 63 Old 10-10-2018, 10:01 AM
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More food for thought...

Consider the contact patch a front tire has with no weight on it. What happens when you load that tire? More rubber on the ground.

Would you rather go through a corner with a bigger or smaller contact patch on the front tire?

You have a brand new track rider that manages to tuck the front. The advanced guys are carrying way more corner speed than that guy, but the novice guy crashes? The brand new novice rider does all his braking straight up and down because he's been told for years that you should never use the brakes in the corner. So he comes in super hot, hard on the brakes, then completely lets off the brakes as he tips the bike in...

What if...so many people are tucking the front on their bike because the front end isn't loaded enough?

Spend the few hundred bucks to get the suspension you have serviced and set up for you. Spend that money you would have spent on aftermarket shit and go do YCRS....and that money you have spent on the school transfers to every bike you'll ever ride.


I once had the opportunity to chat with *Troy Corser at Laguna Seca several years ago about this very same thing. He also pointed out that unless on billiard table smooth corners (which only [email protected] race tracks), that he always kept the front brake lever slightly compressed (trail braking) because aside from putting a fatter contact patch on the tarmac, it also took up extra suspension compression/rebound cycles, which only makes the handling worse. This in turn results in getting pushed off line, and/or having the rear end trying to swap with the front end; which in and of itself will result in crashing.

I've been using this tip, and you know what? It really, really works!



*Troy Corser is an Australian who is retired from racing. He won the Australian Superbike Championship; the USA AMA Superbike Championship; and two World Superbike Championships.
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post #35 of 63 Old 10-10-2018, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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I love the way Ken Hill approaches this with percentage of braking in relation to the corner type (first 5% and last 5%)


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post #36 of 63 Old 10-12-2018, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Good thing I ordered some fork seals as I found my left fork to be leaking. Respring working out better than I expected.

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post #37 of 63 Old 10-20-2018, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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I purchased a revalve kit from Andreani to install during Dec/Jan when there aren't that many track days. At only 70$ it's worth a try.

ANDREANI MODIFICATION KIT FORK FOR FORK KAWASAKI ZX6R 636 2014


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Last edited by jd41; 10-20-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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post #38 of 63 Old 10-29-2018, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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I had my suspension adjusted by Dave Moss right now. Heading out for the afternoon session in a bit.
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post #39 of 63 Old 10-29-2018, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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My compression and rebound are only 1 out so it's lacking damping. I didn't have time to install a lighter spring or the revalve this month so I'll do it in the next couple of weeks.

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post #40 of 63 Old 10-29-2018, 03:10 PM
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I had my suspension adjusted by Dave Moss right now. Heading out for the afternoon session in a bit.
That's awesome JD, he is a great guy and an even better suspension tuner. I like the way he actually teaches you about suspension as he is tuning your bike. I should have brought a notebook with me when he worked with me during a round this season.

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post #41 of 63 Old 10-29-2018, 07:58 PM
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^^This is good stuff, and oh so true! I remember a specific case on my ZX6R at Road America going into T5 (slowest turn on track at the end of the 2nd straightaway, braking from about 150 mph to 35ish), for some stupid reason that I can't remember I had a bit of an oh-shit moment and decided to suddenly let off the brakes completely as I was already halfway leaned over for the turn. Guess what happened...fast rebound back up, lightened up the front end, got a little wobbly mid-turn, but luckily didn't crash. I was amazed that I hadn't crashed to be honest, and I think the thing that saved me was the sticky Pirelli front!

I know that wasn't the only time I did that, but I remember that one well cuz it was pretty scary lol Very important to use the front brake effectively to control the way the forks are behaving. Of course that shouldn't mean that you can skip out on setting up the suspensions well, but when a guy on shitty bone stock forks on a ninja 300 which are like noodles is going lap record pace (for that class), you know a LOT of the work is being done by the right hand, not by fancy aftermarket parts

The 2nd greatest thing about your story SBK, you are intelligent (enough) to recognize how utterly F-ing lucky you were. And your story is a great illustration on fork compression/rebound relationship. There are situations were one is better off trailing the front brakes a wee bit going into a very tight, bumpy corner. And also why one ought not just let go of the lever mid-exiting a corner. As you correctly noted how light the front end gets if the rider merely just lets go. 1) The normal result is losing the front end a few nano-seconds later.

2) Or, as the forks rapidly rebound the rider runs wide - and very quickly; the most common results is the rider & bike run quite wide at the exit, and goes off track. This usually ends unpleasantly for both rider & bike.

Oh yeah, the 1st greatest thing about your story is Your Guardian Angel is grossly over worked, and grossly under paid. I hope you count your good fortune.

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post #42 of 63 Old 10-30-2018, 12:34 PM
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Oh yeah, the 1st greatest thing about your story is Your Guardian Angel is grossly over worked, and grossly under paid. I hope you count your good fortune.
Over-worked?? Maybe a bit....under paid?? Definitely not! That guardian angel is the whole company called "Pirelli" and the people that I buy the tires from. And they're certainly not cheap! lol That's what really saved me from tucking the front

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post #43 of 63 Old 10-30-2018, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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The afternoon session was way better after Dave Moss set up the suspension but I haven't been able to get the bike to steer properly since changing out the steering stem bearings. It keeps veering to a side and has heavy handling. I feel really frustrated with this bike. I also had a couple of headshakes at turn 1 at Laguna Seca and while braking into turn 2 and turn 7-8.

I'm going to inspect the races and bearings, loosen up the collar just enough to make sure there isn't any play, check rear wheel alignment and swap out the triples if it doesn't improve. Wheels are straight. Rotors are straight.

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post #44 of 63 Old 11-02-2018, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Andreani Revalve Kit

I installed my revalve kit yesterday. Instructions are in Italian which only has the stack specs so no problem. The valve compression side has drilled holes on the sides while the rebound is solid. Measured everything and put it in order.


ANDREANI MODIFICATION KIT FORK FOR FORK KAWASAKI ZX6R 636 2014
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post #45 of 63 Old 11-09-2018, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Rebuilt my forks today and installed the new spring and valve kit. Oil was filthy! Previous fork sag was at 20-22mm without preload. It used to be fine with the 9.5N spring in street trim but switching to track fairings made them too heavy. Now I can adjust it to 25-30mm with the 9.25N spring.

Also had to readjust my steering stem bearings. They were still to tight at 5ft-lb. These needle bearings have to be hand tightened to get the proper play. I didn't like them. Using OEM ball-bearings next time.

I'm confident this will resolve my suspension issues. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and saving me 1k$.


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Last edited by jd41; 11-09-2018 at 10:47 AM.
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