Traxxion AK-20 vs GP suspension 25mm - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 63 Old 10-07-2018, 12:31 AM
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If your dead set on upgrading. I would go for the GP 25mm kit. From what I remember reading its a exact copy of Ohlins popular 25mm kit that they don't make anymore that they bought the rights to it I can remember correctly. Ohlins then came out with the 30mm kit that they took somethings internally to make it cheaper to make. From some of the fast guys I know don't like the feedback of the 30mm kit ohlins has now and go for the GP 25mm kit. My friends from TSE in Wisconsin push that and Penske. I also have the GP cat front /Penske rear and it's a nice combo. My buddy Tony has the Gas cart set up but he is stupid fast and says he notices the difference but then again. He is up there fighting for podiums. I would spend the money but I like wasting money on cool things even though I don't really need em just because I enjoy modding stuff so why not.
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post #17 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 05:28 AM
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I was really happy with my shock upgrade. I immediately noticed reduced tire wear, more feel and increased stability. It also made front's deficiencies noticeable which is kind of nice because it made me concentrate on what input errors I was making. Changing the spring rate of the forks helped with the bottoming out of the stock suspension (soft at 9.0N) and don't have anything to complain about, but I would like cartridges sometime in the next year as I've noticed an improvement with traction and more "confidence" to push with any suspension upgrades made so far, plus it's bling to look at while chilling at home. . I'd rather look at my bike than watch TV. .

Most tuners recommend changing one thing/ setting a time to see how it helps. I saw a shock around here for 450$ which is really cheap so might be worth a try. (link here: https://www.zx6r.com/classifieds/110...x6r-500-a.html) If it's not in your weight range you just have to swap out the spring. I have a 525 and 575 if you need it.
Nice find man! Might have to PM him and see what's up.
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post #18 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Nice find man! Might have to PM him and see what's up.
It's a steal at that price. Retails at $1595.

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post #19 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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I forgot about race tech cartridges. Any positive experiences with them (G2-R 25mm CARTRIDGE KITS)? Like the AK-20's, they are also modular and able to be installed on multiple bikes.



---

Getting in my new springs today. Can't wait for my next TD. Glad that Buttonwillow just added a day in December!

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post #20 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 08:23 PM
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Lots of...."interesting" responses on just this thread alone. Here's trends that I've seen over the years across a few hundred different riders and bikes...

- People don't take the time to set up their bike properly in the first place

- People compare unserviced, old, and incorrectly setup OEM suspension and slap on new stuff then say "Errr mah gawd the stock stuff is trash!"

- People tend to throw money at the bike instead of fixing the problems (themselves) first

- Typically on the internet, those that talk about the "night and day" differences that aftermarket suspension does compared to OEM are not even fast enough to truly extract the advantage of said aftermarket suspension

First thing that came to mind when I saw you talking about the front "coming up" mid corner is probably because you're not trail braking enough.

Getting bumped to Advanced at the local track day org is a big deal for sure and I don't want to undermine that. But I hate to admit, the real learning begins once you get to that group. Once you are at that point, generally speaking, it's an indicator that you're a consistent rider with a decent set of skills under their belt.

Up until that point, assuming someone has a serviceable bike with suspension tuned for them, that money is FAR BETTER spent on a riding school to improve the loose nut behind the bars.
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post #21 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Otto Man View Post
Lots of...."interesting" responses on just this thread alone. Here's trends that I've seen over the years across a few hundred different riders and bikes...

- People don't take the time to set up their bike properly in the first place

- People compare unserviced, old, and incorrectly setup OEM suspension and slap on new stuff then say "Errr mah gawd the stock stuff is trash!"

- People tend to throw money at the bike instead of fixing the problems (themselves) first

- Typically on the internet, those that talk about the "night and day" differences that aftermarket suspension does compared to OEM are not even fast enough to truly extract the advantage of said aftermarket suspension

First thing that came to mind when I saw you talking about the front "coming up" mid corner is probably because you're not trail braking enough.

Getting bumped to Advanced at the local track day org is a big deal for sure and I don't want to undermine that. But I hate to admit, the real learning begins once you get to that group. Once you are at that point, generally speaking, it's an indicator that you're a consistent rider with a decent set of skills under their belt.

Up until that point, assuming someone has a serviceable bike with suspension tuned for them, that money is FAR BETTER spent on a riding school to improve the loose nut behind the bars.
Wow. You're completely right. I stopped trail braking as much after having a low side. Greatly appreciate the advice. Going to get my current stuff sorted out and refreshed. I'll get cartridges once I actually need them.

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post #22 of 63 Old 10-08-2018, 11:16 PM
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JD, are you happy you upgraded the rear suspension first instead of the front or do you feel you should have done it the other way?

I'm in a similar situation, intermediate pace looking to continue getting faster...trying to decide which component I should focus on first. Right now I'm just running re-sprung front and rear stock suspension, with an additional adjustment nut for rear ride height. Haven't necessarily had any issues yet, but I'm guessing as I get faster one piece or the other will reach it's limits.


Item 1) GP Suspension are very, very good, I'd have no hesitation using them. With that said, I had Traxxion Dynamics set up my Penske 8987 triple adjustable shock for two different R1s and was also very happy with their work. I go with GP, because they are on the West Coast, as am I.

Item 2) Now, as to shocks, all OEM with the exception of the R series Triumph Daytona, and top tier Apilia Ducati, MV Agusta are for the most part shite (sans a few Sp. Ed. R1s w/Öhlins). And some might argue, the CBR1000RR SP. But since 2009, reviewers have been lauding the GSX-R 1000 with Showa Big Piston Forks as having fabulous front ends. And the latest incarnation of the ZX-6R with Showa Big Piston Forks have been generally greeted with kind words.

Item 3) Thus, I'd make the initial plunge with a new rear shock: Öhlins, Penske, or K-Tech are all gonna see any rider show credible improvements pretty much out of the gate.

So, from my personal experience, unless you're vying for national ranking in the professional spectrum, I'd have to think long and hard about new forks. But most would see a marked improvement with a fork rebuild. I'd be inclined to go with either GP or Traxxion & save a bit of your own money. And if you are a national top shelf rider, it's not your money any way, and you'll have a small army of suspension specialists who will build up and tear down both ends until you're setting on pole.

Or, if you have really deep pockets, and like sticking chi-chi stickers on your bike, then go for what ever colour of suspension you like best.

At the end of the day you could have the shock and forks of of Marc Marquez's RC213V and do no better than you did with 30K mile suspension, if it is not properly setup. Setup is the keystone.
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post #23 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Man View Post
Lots of...."interesting" responses on just this thread alone. Here's trends that I've seen over the years across a few hundred different riders and bikes...

- People don't take the time to set up their bike properly in the first place

- People compare unserviced, old, and incorrectly setup OEM suspension and slap on new stuff then say "Errr mah gawd the stock stuff is trash!"

- People tend to throw money at the bike instead of fixing the problems (themselves) first

- Typically on the internet, those that talk about the "night and day" differences that aftermarket suspension does compared to OEM are not even fast enough to truly extract the advantage of said aftermarket suspension

First thing that came to mind when I saw you talking about the front "coming up" mid corner is probably because you're not trail braking enough.

Getting bumped to Advanced at the local track day org is a big deal for sure and I don't want to undermine that. But I hate to admit, the real learning begins once you get to that group. Once you are at that point, generally speaking, it's an indicator that you're a consistent rider with a decent set of skills under their belt.

Up until that point, assuming someone has a serviceable bike with suspension tuned for them, that money is FAR BETTER spent on a riding school to improve the loose nut behind the bars.
Exactly!

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Wow. You're completely right. I stopped trail braking as much after having a low side. Greatly appreciate the advice. Going to get my current stuff sorted out and refreshed. I'll get cartridges once I actually need them.
Lol that was easy...I pretty much said the same thing as Otto Man but in different ways and now you're all like "great input, I'll do that!"

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post #24 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 10:32 AM
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Wow. You're completely right. I stopped trail braking as much after having a low side. Greatly appreciate the advice. Going to get my current stuff sorted out and refreshed. I'll get cartridges once I actually need them.
More food for thought...

Consider the contact patch a front tire has with no weight on it. What happens when you load that tire? More rubber on the ground.

Would you rather go through a corner with a bigger or smaller contact patch on the front tire?

You have a brand new track rider that manages to tuck the front. The advanced guys are carrying way more corner speed than that guy, but the novice guy crashes? The brand new novice rider does all his braking straight up and down because he's been told for years that you should never use the brakes in the corner. So he comes in super hot, hard on the brakes, then completely lets off the brakes as he tips the bike in...

What if...so many people are tucking the front on their bike because the front end isn't loaded enough?

Spend the few hundred bucks to get the suspension you have serviced and set up for you. Spend that money you would have spent on aftermarket shit and go do YCRS....and that money you have spent on the school transfers to every bike you'll ever ride.
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Last edited by Otto Man; 10-09-2018 at 10:38 AM.
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post #25 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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More food for thought...

Consider the contact patch a front tire has with no weight on it. What happens when you load that tire? More rubber on the ground.

Would you rather go through a corner with a bigger or smaller contact patch on the front tire?

You have a brand new track rider that manages to tuck the front. The advanced guys are carrying way more corner speed than that guy, but the novice guy crashes? The brand new novice rider does all his braking straight up and down because he's been told for years that you should never use the brakes in the corner. So he comes in super hot, hard on the brakes, then completely lets off the brakes as he tips the bike in...

What if...so many people are tucking the front on their bike because the front end isn't loaded enough?

Spend the few hundred bucks to get the suspension you have serviced and set up for you. Spend that money you would have spent on aftermarket shit and go do YCRS....and that money you have spent on the school transfers to every bike you'll ever ride.
I'm going to work on trail braking my next TD. Ken Hill had some coaching on some local TD's where he covered trail braking technique which was the exact opposite of what most "instructors "had said to me up to that point . He showed us how hard and late it really can be done. I have to admit I didn't follow through with it.

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post #26 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly!



Lol that was easy...I pretty much said the same thing as Otto Man but in different ways and now you're all like "great input, I'll do that!"
What?! No you didn't! . You didn't articulate it as clearly as @Otto Man .

Guess this one goes to me too.


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post #27 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 04:20 PM
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What?! No you didn't! . You didn't articulate it as clearly as @Otto Man .

Guess this one goes to me too.
Puurrrrty sure I did. I suggested not to waste much money on aftermarket parts and just get the stock ones setup well and focus on your skills cuz GP, or Ohlins, or K-tech or whatever else is not gonna just make you faster all of a sudden.

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post #28 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Puurrrrty sure I did. I suggested not to waste much money on aftermarket parts and just get the stock ones setup well and focus on your skills cuz GP, or Ohlins, or K-tech or whatever else is not gonna just make you faster all of a sudden.
I already knew that... the main question was about brand quality. I just couldn't understand why my suspension kept "jumping" mid-corner and lacked stability which made me think it was suspension related until the only major riding changes I made were that I stopped trail braking.
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post #29 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 05:52 PM
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I already knew that... the main question was about brand quality. I just couldn't understand why my suspension kept "jumping" mid-corner and lacked stability which made me think it was suspension related until the only major riding changes I made were that I stopped trail braking.
I remember my first crash at the track, where I tucked the front end cuz I went into the turn a little too hot for my comfort and I was trail-braking but sort of panicked so I didn't really let off the brake lever as I was leaning more, plus it was a colder morning and I was on cold street tires. After that I was afraid to trail-brake for the first few track days I did after the crash. Sure enough I was going quite a bit slower than I had before the crash and I didn't get back to that same pace I had before the crash until I started regaining confidence to trail-brake again.
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post #30 of 63 Old 10-09-2018, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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I remember my first crash at the track, where I tucked the front end cuz I went into the turn a little too hot for my comfort and I was trail-braking but sort of panicked so I didn't really let off the brake lever as I was leaning more, plus it was a colder morning and I was on cold street tires. After that I was afraid to trail-brake for the first few track days I did after the crash. Sure enough I was going quite a bit slower than I had before the crash and I didn't get back to that same pace I had before the crash until I started regaining confidence to trail-brake again.
That's exactly what happened. Cold morning and first lap out, let go of the brake lever a bit too abrupt and the front went away. Since then my approach was to finish my braking before the apex and use maintenance throttle throughout the corner for the most part (depending on the corner). Anyway, obviously it makes sense as to why the front feels so different now, because I'm messing it up!

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