Track day tires - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-11-2018, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Track day tires

Has anyone ran a 180/60/17 or is it even recommended to run that size?
Better to stick with the 180/55/17

Not sure which brand to go with
Dunlop GP-A
Pirelli SC2
Michelin EVO

Former roadracer from 2001
Comfortable on track in race environment but when since 2004 since on it
Tucked front end of 04 GSXR 600 on some hard Michelins race DOT's
Will go with some soft compounds this time but technology has changed so much I dont know what is worth it to buy
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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You'll never notice the size difference....

And all those tires you listed are good.

Buy the ones you can get service with...

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post #3 of 16 Old 06-11-2018, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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OK

Had a friend on a CBR1000RR
I think they are on 190/50-17
He said he just switched to 190/55-17 as he read on his forums it helped with turn and some corner grip


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post #4 of 16 Old 06-11-2018, 05:13 PM
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a 190/50 profile is very "flat" compared to a 180/55....180/60......190/55........... I would not use a 190/50 on any bike, certainly not on anything going to the track


ZX6R will respond well to a 180/60......... get that ass up a little

Dunlop Q4 is also an option (very much like a Pirelli SuperCorsa)
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-11-2018, 05:44 PM
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-12-2018, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Do I need to raise the rear of the ZX6R?
I had another local guy hop on mine and said it sits low in back compared to his trackday bike

The deal I found was 180/60-17 for the Michelin SuperSport EVO track tire


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post #7 of 16 Old 06-12-2018, 11:54 AM
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-12-2018, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Could be some broken links here and there
Mainly the vids....they are on youtube though
I sold mine back in 04 but we still work on them

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post #9 of 16 Old 06-12-2018, 12:27 PM
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-13-2018, 01:57 PM
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180/60 is better than 180/55, at least for the Pirelli's. I run DOT race and slicks (SC2 mainly) and I can tell a significant difference in grip between the 180/55 and 180/60. The 180/60 profile provides a bigger footprint at deep lean angles.
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-13-2018, 03:26 PM
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I ran a 190/55 on my 03 636, because that was the smallest rear size I could get in the Bridgestone V01s that I ran, and that worked great. It was damn near impossible to break the rear loose, compared to the Michelin Power 180/55 which I could get to slide a bit when coming out of a corner. What Todd said is spot on, the taller the tire profile the bigger your contact patch when leaned over, which is where you want the most traction. This is one area where I feel like front tire profile is really important as well. Having run a few different fronts, all the same size, but with different inherent profiles. The front tires with a more V like shape are much better than the tires with a more even curve. They may be slightly unstable, but they change direction quickly and give great traction in the turns, allowing you to brake deeper and carry more corner speed.

Due to the cost prohibitive nature of running Slicks, I think I'll be switching back to DOT race rubber when I get back to the track, which will probably see me using the Michelin Cups, I've ridden around on Pirellies before and it just seems like they don't give me enough feedback.

TLDR: Taller profile is better for track

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post #12 of 16 Old 06-13-2018, 04:03 PM
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Now that we're talking lean angles, I'm going to ask the most idiotic question you guys have seen in a long time........

What kind of lean angles should be "possible" on different tire types, making a lot of assumptions about appropriate body position, track temps and conditions being "normal" meaning not wet, not icy cold, no camber, using correct tire pressure, tire warmers, etc....

I've seen reports of the MotoGP guys doing 65+ degrees of course with the best, bravest pilots on board and with rubber that probably feels like hot glue when at proper operating temps. I've got a trick little device I bought through Kickstarter called a "Brain" - basically a telemetry device that gives you data like Harry's Lap Timer but at 20hz instead of 1Hz like you get from an iPhone. Anyways, I'm pretty much stuck at around 48 degrees which is about what most of your kids can do on their tricycles.

I know that concern about loss of traction at higher lean angles is currently the biggest block to improving my lap times. I'm running in B now and at most events I'm in about the middle of the group but my progress has stalled over the last year. But back to the point - how much lean angle could be reached using either something like a Q3+, or from slicks? I saw a story from RevZilla that Taylor Knapp was getting to 62 degree lean angles on the new Q4 during testing last year so maybe there's not too much difference between DOT tires and slicks.

Comments? (other than "boy is that an idiotic question" - I think i know that already )

One last question - anyone know where you can get a 180/60 rear? Revzilla and Bike Bandit still show them as out of stock and several others don't seem to carry the 60 profile.

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post #13 of 16 Old 06-13-2018, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all
Ended up getting some Pirelli SC2 V2 that were on sale as I heard V3 is coming out
I would have preferred the 180/60-17 rear but they were ALOT more....just went with the 180/55-17
I used to race on Pirellis back then so...hopefully they work out fine....at my speed pretty sure they will


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post #14 of 16 Old 06-15-2018, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin View Post
I ran a 190/55 on my 03 636, because that was the smallest rear size I could get in the Bridgestone V01s that I ran, and that worked great. It was damn near impossible to break the rear loose, compared to the Michelin Power 180/55 which I could get to slide a bit when coming out of a corner. What Todd said is spot on, the taller the tire profile the bigger your contact patch when leaned over, which is where you want the most traction. This is one area where I feel like front tire profile is really important as well. Having run a few different fronts, all the same size, but with different inherent profiles. The front tires with a more V like shape are much better than the tires with a more even curve. They may be slightly unstable, but they change direction quickly and give great traction in the turns, allowing you to brake deeper and carry more corner speed.

Due to the cost prohibitive nature of running Slicks, I think I'll be switching back to DOT race rubber when I get back to the track, which will probably see me using the Michelin Cups, I've ridden around on Pirellies before and it just seems like they don't give me enough feedback.

TLDR: Taller profile is better for track
Wow lol Iím breaking the rear loose on 200/55 Michelin Power slicks

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post #15 of 16 Old 06-15-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russperry View Post
Now that we're talking lean angles, I'm going to ask the most idiotic question you guys have seen in a long time........

What kind of lean angles should be "possible" on different tire types, making a lot of assumptions about appropriate body position, track temps and conditions being "normal" meaning not wet, not icy cold, no camber, using correct tire pressure, tire warmers, etc....

I've seen reports of the MotoGP guys doing 65+ degrees of course with the best, bravest pilots on board and with rubber that probably feels like hot glue when at proper operating temps. I've got a trick little device I bought through Kickstarter called a "Brain" - basically a telemetry device that gives you data like Harry's Lap Timer but at 20hz instead of 1Hz like you get from an iPhone. Anyways, I'm pretty much stuck at around 48 degrees which is about what most of your kids can do on their tricycles.

I know that concern about loss of traction at higher lean angles is currently the biggest block to improving my lap times. I'm running in B now and at most events I'm in about the middle of the group but my progress has stalled over the last year. But back to the point - how much lean angle could be reached using either something like a Q3+, or from slicks? I saw a story from RevZilla that Taylor Knapp was getting to 62 degree lean angles on the new Q4 during testing last year so maybe there's not too much difference between DOT tires and slicks.

Comments? (other than "boy is that an idiotic question" - I think i know that already )

One last question - anyone know where you can get a 180/60 rear? Revzilla and Bike Bandit still show them as out of stock and several others don't seem to carry the 60 profile.
I don't think this is a stupid question at all, although it is hard to answer precisely. I can't tell you what's possible with any street tires because there probably isn't a whole lot of data out there on that, but with race tires (either DOT or slicks), around 60 degrees is definitely possible. Most of the tires used in WSBK or WSS are the same tires that you or I could buy from a race tire vendor (assuming Pirelli of course). I've seen expert club racers do about 58-60 degrees based on the data loggers they had in some of the fancier modern liter bikes, like on the Panigale, R1M, RSV4, etc. I've never had anything to record lean angles on any of my bikes, but I've always wondered what sort of angles I can achieve. What I do know is they would be vastly different from left vs right turns lol The other thing I can say with certainty is that 48 degrees is nowhere near the limits of your tires, so lean more!!

Here's an example of a fast 13-year old kid on a 300 with what I'm assuming are 110/140 tires (Pirelli Supercorsa SC)...what do you suppose that lean angle is? My guess is a LOT more than 48 degrees


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