Track Days 2019 - Page 10 - ZX6R Forum
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post #136 of 191 Old 06-21-2019, 08:19 AM
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post #137 of 191 Old 06-23-2019, 07:38 PM
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Awesome info SBK. I know most of it is out there on CCS website and rule book, but it's good to see it outlined from someone who's doing it first hand.

I'm planning on doing the race license school with Evolve before the end of the track season, or beginning of next. Not sure if I'd do any CCS next year, would have to decide if I wanna roll up on the 6. Would like to do a couple of the motogladiator races since they added 600's to some events.

I'm assuming little bikes and 600 are the most packed grids typically in CCS?
I would definitely recommend doing the Evolve school and then doing some MotoGladiator races. A lot of the old-school racers kinda shit on this new trend that track day orgs started, where they do a couple of races during a weekend, but I think it's a great way to get started with racing. It gives you an idea for what it's like, but without feeling overwhelmed by all the racers around and the packed schedule of a typical race weekend. Lots of new time racers get all sorts of confused when they first go to a race event, so having another step before that, such as MotoGladiator can help a lot.

Lots of different classes and types of bikes out there, but overall you can pretty much split them up in 4 categories: Little bikes (300-500s), lightweights (SV650, FZ07, and the occasional Ducati Monster, KTM Duke, Kramer, and some other odd bikes), middleweights (600s), and unlimited (1000s). By far the biggest grids are in the middleweight. Amateur middleweight is a shit show. There is a reason that class is called the meat grinder. I'm glad I got bumped to expert this year, but regardless of status, I told myself I will never race a 600 again. They have the most red flags out of everyone. The experts are legit, but many times their races get ruined due to red flags caused by amateurs crashing out.

After that it's probably the unlimited that's the second most popular. Probably close to the lightweights. Not really sure. Unfortunately the little bike classes do not have very large grids, mainly because they have 300 classes and 500 classes. So there are guys on 300s that ONLY do the 300 classes, and then guys on R3s, RC390s or Ninja 400s that can't do the 300 classes so they only do the 500 classes. If those were all combined somehow, or if more people would ditch their 300s for the newer bikes, then we'd have some decent grids. But so far, on a good day we might get like 15 at a time, which is why we almost always get combined with some Lightweight classes and they do a 2-wave start.

The little bikes are a blast though and a perfect way to get started with racing. Plus they're cheap! The bikes are cheap, the parts are cheap, and the tire bill is WAY cheaper.

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post #138 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 06:00 AM
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I would definitely recommend doing the Evolve school and then doing some MotoGladiator races. A lot of the old-school racers kinda shit on this new trend that track day orgs started, where they do a couple of races during a weekend, but I think it's a great way to get started with racing. It gives you an idea for what it's like, but without feeling overwhelmed by all the racers around and the packed schedule of a typical race weekend. Lots of new time racers get all sorts of confused when they first go to a race event, so having another step before that, such as MotoGladiator can help a lot.

Lots of different classes and types of bikes out there, but overall you can pretty much split them up in 4 categories: Little bikes (300-500s), lightweights (SV650, FZ07, and the occasional Ducati Monster, KTM Duke, Kramer, and some other odd bikes), middleweights (600s), and unlimited (1000s). By far the biggest grids are in the middleweight. Amateur middleweight is a shit show. There is a reason that class is called the meat grinder. I'm glad I got bumped to expert this year, but regardless of status, I told myself I will never race a 600 again. They have the most red flags out of everyone. The experts are legit, but many times their races get ruined due to red flags caused by amateurs crashing out.

After that it's probably the unlimited that's the second most popular. Probably close to the lightweights. Not really sure. Unfortunately the little bike classes do not have very large grids, mainly because they have 300 classes and 500 classes. So there are guys on 300s that ONLY do the 300 classes, and then guys on R3s, RC390s or Ninja 400s that can't do the 300 classes so they only do the 500 classes. If those were all combined somehow, or if more people would ditch their 300s for the newer bikes, then we'd have some decent grids. But so far, on a good day we might get like 15 at a time, which is why we almost always get combined with some Lightweight classes and they do a 2-wave start.

The little bikes are a blast though and a perfect way to get started with racing. Plus they're cheap! The bikes are cheap, the parts are cheap, and the tire bill is WAY cheaper.
All of this is spot on...just a few things I want to add. Yep, I am one of those guys that shits on the track day ran "races"...a large reason being that if I paid for the track day, I paid to ride...not lose an entire session rotation (for all groups) because they want to run races. They need to do that shit at the end of the day, after the normal track day schedule is over if you ask me...

Meat grinder class is both the scariest and best time you'll have. But yeah, he's spot on...some weekends are pure crash fests. There are a lot of people in situations were "your ambition outweighed your talent" LOL

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post #139 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 06:27 AM Thread Starter
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The little bikes are a blast though and a perfect way to get started with racing. Plus they're cheap! The bikes are cheap, the parts are cheap, and the tire bill is WAY cheaper.
Definitely a consideration, would probably end up with two bikes if I went that route. The tire bill and parts being cheap would be real nice lol

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All of this is spot on...just a few things I want to add. Yep, I am one of those guys that shits on the track day ran "races"...a large reason being that if I paid for the track day, I paid to ride...not lose an entire session rotation (for all groups) because they want to run races. They need to do that shit at the end of the day, after the normal track day schedule is over if you ask me...

Meat grinder class is both the scariest and best time you'll have. But yeah, he's spot on...some weekends are pure crash fests. There are a lot of people in situations were "your ambition outweighed your talent" LOL
Every time I've ridden with Evolve and they've done the MotoGladiator races we haven't lost any time, they just rearrange the schedule... plus, I lose more time due to red flags on the first lap than I ever have due to a couple races.

Meat grinder just sounds like a fully packed intermediate day at NJMP lol except maybe the guys are faster
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post #140 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 08:10 AM
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Definitely a consideration, would probably end up with two bikes if I went that route. The tire bill and parts being cheap would be real nice lol



Every time I've ridden with Evolve and they've done the MotoGladiator races we haven't lost any time, they just rearrange the schedule... plus, I lose more time due to red flags on the first lap than I ever have due to a couple races.

Meat grinder just sounds like a fully packed intermediate day at NJMP lol except maybe the guys are faster
It's a meat grinder because it's like a sold out intermediate group track day...except they just go full retard at a higher level.
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post #141 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 03:59 PM
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It's a meat grinder because it's like a sold out intermediate group track day...except they just go full retard at a higher level.


I did a Motorcycle Xcitement Trackday a few years back. This isnít a bash against MX as I ride with the regularly(for the value). But August 13, 2016 it was 99 degrees out with 100% humidity. 5 I-Group riders collided in T5. Next thing I know I see a WVU medevac helo circling overhead then lands and another helo circles overhead.

Point is, there are a lot of I group heroís that think their shit donít stink and makes panties disintegrate

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post #142 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 06:24 PM
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I would definitely recommend doing the Evolve school and then doing some MotoGladiator races. A lot of the old-school racers kinda shit on this new trend that track day orgs started, where they do a couple of races during a weekend, but I think it's a great way to get started with racing. It gives you an idea for what it's like, but without feeling overwhelmed by all the racers around and the packed schedule of a typical race weekend. Lots of new time racers get all sorts of confused when they first go to a race event, so having another step before that, such as MotoGladiator can help a lot.

Lots of different classes and types of bikes out there, but overall you can pretty much split them up in 4 categories: Little bikes (300-500s), lightweights (SV650, FZ07, and the occasional Ducati Monster, KTM Duke, Kramer, and some other odd bikes), middleweights (600s), and unlimited (1000s). By far the biggest grids are in the middleweight. Amateur middleweight is a shit show. There is a reason that class is called the meat grinder. I'm glad I got bumped to expert this year, but regardless of status, I told myself I will never race a 600 again. They have the most red flags out of everyone. The experts are legit, but many times their races get ruined due to red flags caused by amateurs crashing out.

After that it's probably the unlimited that's the second most popular. Probably close to the lightweights. Not really sure. Unfortunately the little bike classes do not have very large grids, mainly because they have 300 classes and 500 classes. So there are guys on 300s that ONLY do the 300 classes, and then guys on R3s, RC390s or Ninja 400s that can't do the 300 classes so they only do the 500 classes. If those were all combined somehow, or if more people would ditch their 300s for the newer bikes, then we'd have some decent grids. But so far, on a good day we might get like 15 at a time, which is why we almost always get combined with some Lightweight classes and they do a 2-wave start.

The little bikes are a blast though and a perfect way to get started with racing. Plus they're cheap! The bikes are cheap, the parts are cheap, and the tire bill is WAY cheaper.
All of this is spot on...just a few things I want to add. Yep, I am one of those guys that shits on the track day ran "races"...a large reason being that if I paid for the track day, I paid to ride...not lose an entire session rotation (for all groups) because they want to run races. They need to do that shit at the end of the day, after the normal track day schedule is over if you ask me...

Meat grinder class is both the scariest and best time you'll have. But yeah, he's spot on...some weekends are pure crash fests. There are a lot of people in situations were "your ambition outweighed your talent" LOL
I agree about the loss of track time issue, however nobody that I’ve seen do these types of races allows for that to happen. Personally I don’t like the way Evolve does it cuz they’re in the middle of the afternoon and the schedule gets all complicated, but other orgs I’ve done this with have the races either at the end of the day at 5:00 or during lunch time and they just make the lunch break a bit longer.

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post #143 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 06:27 PM
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Definitely a consideration, would probably end up with two bikes if I went that route. The tire bill and parts being cheap would be real nice lol



Every time I've ridden with Evolve and they've done the MotoGladiator races we haven't lost any time, they just rearrange the schedule... plus, I lose more time due to red flags on the first lap than I ever have due to a couple races.

Meat grinder just sounds like a fully packed intermediate day at NJMP lol except maybe the guys are faster
It's a meat grinder because it's like a sold out intermediate group track day...except they just go full retard at a higher level. <img src="https://zx6r.com/images/smilies/lol.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Lol" class="inlineimg" />
LOL Exactly!! I’ve seen and been in 600 sprint races that got red flagged twice in just a few laps!

That class has the most people and the most Rossi wannabes hence it can be a shit show.

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post #144 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 08:03 PM
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I went to NJMP Thunderbolt past weekend. Two days, 22 and 23.
Sent my family on vacation the prior Friday and had the entire weekend all to myself. I sucked up the cost and signed up with The Riders Club, and went.
All and all, this was much better experience then the last time with Evolve GT (disclosure: I actually like Evolve). Anyway, the track was packed for all groups. They split us in 4 groups, which left only 15 mins session to each. But kudos to organizers they were not red flagging sessions every time somebody went down. In fact both days that I was in novice groups they did not red flag once. People crashed, of course, but they just left them there until the end of the session.
Sunday was packed too, but not as much. So, outside the cost, this was nearly perfect weekend. I shoot some videos on Sunday, this one is of the last session before lunch.
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post #145 of 191 Old 06-24-2019, 08:55 PM
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I went to NJMP Thunderbolt past weekend. Two days, 22 and 23.
Sent my family on vacation the prior Friday and had the entire weekend all to myself. I sucked up the cost and signed up with The Riders Club, and went.
All and all, this was much better experience then the last time with Evolve GT (disclosure: I actually like Evolve). Anyway, the track was packed for all groups. They split us in 4 groups, which left only 15 mins session to each. But kudos to organizers they were not red flagging sessions every time somebody went down. In fact both days that I was in novice groups they did not red flag once. People crashed, of course, but they just left them there until the end of the session.
Sunday was packed too, but not as much. So, outside the cost, this was nearly perfect weekend. I shoot some videos on Sunday, this one is of the last session before lunch.
https://youtu.be/0k0-YjK9cf4
Either you look like you need to be in intermediate, or everyone else looks like they need to be in an MSF class (or both). Not to sound like a dick, but I'm pretty sure I could pass some of those people in your video on my Zuma!
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post #146 of 191 Old 06-25-2019, 04:37 AM Thread Starter
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I went to NJMP Thunderbolt past weekend. Two days, 22 and 23.
https://youtu.be/0k0-YjK9cf4
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Either you look like you need to be in intermediate, or everyone else looks like they need to be in an MSF class (or both). Not to sound like a dick, but I'm pretty sure I could pass some of those people in your video on my Zuma!
Ya, I would agree with SBK on getting that bump. Your lines looked pretty good and you were definitely getting by about everyone I saw. Looked like that one coach was riding with you a lot, get any feed back from him?
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post #147 of 191 Old 06-25-2019, 04:54 AM
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Either you look like you need to be in intermediate, or everyone else looks like they need to be in an MSF class (or both). Not to sound like a dick, but I'm pretty sure I could pass some of those people in your video on my Zuma!

Agreed on both accounts

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post #148 of 191 Old 06-25-2019, 05:20 AM
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Now that you mentioned it I was bumped up to intermediate group. I did not ask for it though, I am old and it was fine with me riding in novice. I agree with some of the posts earlier and from my personal observations intermediate group is the most dangerous, most crashes can be seen there. So, I was not in a hurry. On Saturday though I was riding just like you saw on this video. A coach caught up with me and tapped on the tail and so I followed. Apparently, I must had had screwed the line somewhere. Anyway, I follow him and then he began passing other riders and did so on those big S turns, 8-10 if I remember. I was not comfortable keeping up with him. Last thing I wanted to do was to run somebody off the track. You saw those guysí levels, they were pretty new. Besides, showing the line can be done at slower pace, no need to swerve between others. So, at some point I decided I had enough, I passed him and went on my own pace. Man, he took it personally. After the session he stopped me and began screaming at me as if I were his pupil. About how bad my line was, how I am going to be stuck in novice forever, how I must follow him when he told me to, all that stuff. I let him calm down and told that if he wanted to show the line he should have done so at safe pace and not passing others on turn. He told me we should work on that and left. I never interacted with him again. On Sunday, as you noticed I was followed by a coach again. Except that his input was not obtrusive, at one point he showed me thumbs up and that was it. After the session he called me up and gave red sticker. He was visibly excited moving me to the next group and I sincerely appreciated it.
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post #149 of 191 Old 06-25-2019, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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Now that you mentioned it I was bumped up to intermediate group.
I Man, he took it personally. After the session he stopped me and began screaming at me as if I were his pupil. About how bad my line was, how I am going to be stuck in novice forever, how I must follow him when he told me to, all that stuff. I let him calm down and told that if he wanted to show the line he should have done so at safe pace and not passing others on turn. He told me we should work on that and left. I never interacted with him again. On Sunday, as you noticed I was followed by a coach again. Except that his input was not obtrusive, at one point he showed me thumbs up and that was it. After the session he called me up and gave red sticker. He was visibly excited moving me to the next group and I sincerely appreciated it.
Well congrats on the bump! Sorry you had a bad interaction with a coach, I know the feeling...there's a specific group I will not ride with because of some of their coaches. The guy that gave you the bump has the right attitude though, that is how a good coach reacts.
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post #150 of 191 Old 06-25-2019, 06:54 AM
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Now that you mentioned it I was bumped up to intermediate group. I did not ask for it though, I am old and it was fine with me riding in novice. I agree with some of the posts earlier and from my personal observations intermediate group is the most dangerous, most crashes can be seen there. So, I was not in a hurry. On Saturday though I was riding just like you saw on this video. A coach caught up with me and tapped on the tail and so I followed. Apparently, I must had had screwed the line somewhere. Anyway, I follow him and then he began passing other riders and did so on those big S turns, 8-10 if I remember. I was not comfortable keeping up with him. Last thing I wanted to do was to run somebody off the track. You saw those guysí levels, they were pretty new. Besides, showing the line can be done at slower pace, no need to swerve between others. So, at some point I decided I had enough, I passed him and went on my own pace. Man, he took it personally. After the session he stopped me and began screaming at me as if I were his pupil. About how bad my line was, how I am going to be stuck in novice forever, how I must follow him when he told me to, all that stuff. I let him calm down and told that if he wanted to show the line he should have done so at safe pace and not passing others on turn. He told me we should work on that and left. I never interacted with him again. On Sunday, as you noticed I was followed by a coach again. Except that his input was not obtrusive, at one point he showed me thumbs up and that was it. After the session he called me up and gave red sticker. He was visibly excited moving me to the next group and I sincerely appreciated it.
This was with the riders club? Some coaches take their jobs way too seriously and forget that people are there just to have fine. Maybe someone wants to be slow or doesn't want to pass someone on purpose. I've had cases similar to that years ago when a coach would pass me and tap his tail to follow him and in my mind I'm thinking "No, I don't want to follow you. I'm purposely going slower now at the pace I want because of whatever reason (new tire, new bike, some major changes to the bike, first time on a bike in 6 months, etc. whatever it may be)". And many are so fixed on THE LINE, as if there is only one. There isn't. There are many lines around a track and some are better than others. If you only learn one line you're going to have a hard time passing someone that's slightly slower than you and is constantly riding on that one line. You need to adapt.
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