Intermittent high idle on a 2006 ZX6R, need help on diagnosis/repair - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 01-01-2020, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Question Intermittent high idle on a 2006 ZX6R, need help on diagnosis/repair

Hello! Happy new year to everyone.

I'm a first-time poster, long-time lurker.

I am writing today to get some help.

Bike: 2006 ZX6R/ZX636DF

Problem: Currently, the bike is experiencing high idle, around 3-3.2K, which appears to occur intermittently. This first started when I was stopped at a traffic light on first gear, with the clutch fully disengaged. About 10minutes prior, I had washed my bike at a self-serve drive-in wash place. I did not have this problem while I let my bike idle on neutral immediately after post-wash to help it dry off. I turned the bike off/on when I got home, but the bike would start, climb to about 1300 RPMS and continue to 3K'ish. I let the bike sit for a day, and it started up normally the following day. I did not ride that day. Two days later, I went to ride the bike, and it started up to 1300RPM, but then climbed to 3K again. I turned the bike off/on and checked for throttle cable play/response, everything felt normal. On maybe the 5th off/on attempt, the bike started up and idled at normal RPMs. It also began to snow, so I rolled the bike indoors and let it sit while I removed the fairings to prepare for additional diagnostics.

Edit: the problem also manifests in-gear. So when riding in 1st gear with a closed throttle, the bike is pulling forward as though I was applying throttle.

Summary of attempts to repair:
1. Loosened/tightened idle adjuster cable. This had no effect. I even removed the cable completely and the idle RPMs were unaffected when experiencing the high RPM issue.
2. I removed accessory electronics (e.g., USB charger, harness for a battery tender, aftermarket LEDs), no effect.
3. Throttle cable seems to move freely without binding when listening and feeling during throttle manipulation with engine off.
4. I also read this post by Pivot918 but doesn't seem to be the exact same issue: https://www.zx6r.com/zx6r/55571-rpm-...ets-stuck.html
5. A user in another forum suggested it was a wet ECU: https://www.v-twinforum.com/threads/...e-help.105213/ but I feel like a wet ECU would cause shorts that would be more damaging than high idle

Are there any other diagnostic tests I should conduct before asking my local shop? My shop is pretty good and fair about pricing, but I'm also a DIYer who likes to learn about his cars/bikes and be able to prevent/fix problems on their own so any input you are able to share with me would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

Last edited by responsible; 01-01-2020 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Made title more descriptive
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post #2 of 12 Old 01-01-2020, 09:31 AM
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I'd suspect that you got water inside a connector body when you used that commercial car wash -- guessing it had a high pressure spray wand? If you shot that at the bike from close range, there is now water somewhere it should not be.

If you have the fairings off, go buy a tube of dielectric grease from the local auto parts store. Pull apart each and every electrical connector you can find and fill the female side with grease. Even better if you have a can of compressed air around and can blow the moisture out of the plugs before you do....

On a bike which is 14+ years old, the odds are good that you or any one of the previous owners have modified the wiring harness from OEM. Also take apart all wads of electrical tape and do a close examination of the connections. Look for bare spots in the insulation on the whole wiring harness. A short is not an uncommon issue.
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post #3 of 12 Old 01-01-2020, 04:52 PM
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Ride it around for a few days to see if it goes away. Might just be something thats wet and needs to dry up.
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post #4 of 12 Old 01-08-2020, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Hi RJ2112 and Scorpi0, thanks for your responses!

Yes, I did go to one of those self-serve washes with the spray gun.

---

Here's an update for everyone who is interested:

I checked the ECU and other electrical connections (like to the fuel pump), blew them out with compressed air, and let them all sit for several days.

I re-assembled everything and on the first start-up, the bike started at normal RPMs. I shut it off and started it back up, and it started near-normal RPM, around 2K, but then slowly started to crawl up to 3K.

If it was a wet connection issue, I feel like things *should* have dried out by now. I put my bike up on stands indoors and it has been about 75F the entire time.

Additional attempts at troubleshooting
I just removed the airbox today and disconnected the relays from the spark plugs and additional wiring harness connections underneat the gas tank/airbox to let them all air out. It might be possible that some water got in this area when I was spraying down the radiator. The connections all looked dry but I'll let it sit a day.

I also inspected the fuel hoses and other small vacuum hoses, but they also seemed to be connected properly. There also do not appear to be any cracked or otherwise damaged hosing.

Last edited by responsible; 01-08-2020 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Provided updates on additional attempts at troubleshooting
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post #5 of 12 Old 01-08-2020, 07:22 PM
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Throttle position sensor bad or loose- wires or connector? Sometimes you can just wiggle one of the wires and cause something similar to what your describing. Could have developed a dead spot- that can cause it to "hunt" during idle, buck and bog when applying steady throttle. Your issue seems electric related- multimeter will come in handy.
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post #6 of 12 Old 01-08-2020, 10:32 PM
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^^^^^ my thinking as well.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."

Words to live by
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post #7 of 12 Old 01-09-2020, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Hi awesome people, thanks for your continued input!

Yesterday I checked the TPS sensor the connections were okay. I did not have a multimeter to test the leads.

However, I think I found the source of the problem. I got my bike outdoors today and rode it to work to test it out.

I thought my throttle was opening/closing normally. But I found the closed position at rest/idle was not the full-closed position. I can twist the throttle forward (toward the closed position) until it no longer turns. When I do this, the RPMS drop (makes sense, less air, etc).

The throttle does return to closed on its own but it doesn't twist back all the way to the fully closed position I described above when I twist the throttle closed.

The accel/decel (name?) adjusters for free play have not been changed prior to the onset of the problem. I tried resetting the free play adjusters (twisting them all the way toward the throttle) but moving up the decel adjuster out >1 inch up the cable didn't seem to help with closing the throttle so I returned it back to normal ~.25 inch up the cable).

Things I will try next:
1. Lubricating the throttle accel/decel cables
2. Removing the bar end on the throttle side

I'm on a lunch break right now so I'll update later in the day.
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post #8 of 12 Old 01-09-2020, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batcycle636 View Post
Throttle position sensor bad or loose- wires or connector? Sometimes you can just wiggle one of the wires and cause something similar to what your describing. Could have developed a dead spot- that can cause it to "hunt" during idle, buck and bog when applying steady throttle. Your issue seems electric related- multimeter will come in handy.
^
!! My thoughts as well.

Also going back to trouble shooting... have you tried to adjust the idler knob? and what does the bike do?

my old 06 636 had the tps go out on me but the idle still functioned. This could be a cause but are you throwing a FI light? and if so what code?

Here is the service manual .pdf

Last edited by Mr Jurassic; 01-09-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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post #9 of 12 Old 01-14-2020, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hi all:

Here's an update:

1. I lubricated and adjusted the throttle accel/decel cables. Moving the decel cable almost the base position seemed to help the throttle return to the proper closed position.
2. I disconnected the wiring cable from the throttle position sensor, the connection to p/n 21176. I tested the 5V reference (blue wire) and my multimeter reported 3V (it only shows the 100s, 10s, and 1's place). I believe it's reading 2V too low because it read the battery at 10V at the terminals. I tested the voltage between the 5V and the Ground, and it read
3. Upon power-on, the actuator buzzes/clicks (p/n 21176A). I noticed this sound early on when I was trying to diagnose the problem, but I thought it was the fuel pump (but that's a separate whining noise).
4. I have also have an FI code 32, which the service manual says is the subthrottle sensor (p. 3-70), this reinforces the suspicions that the subthrottle sensor might be the problem. Note: I had an FI light when my butterfly servo broke completely a few months before this current issue but when I installed the servo eliminator, the FI light stayed on so I checked it and found the code 32.

I'm currently following the service manual's instructions to diagnose if the wiring harness that connects to p/n 21176 is faulty. If the wiring harness is reading the proper voltage, then it would suggest that the sensor itself needs to be replaced.

The sensor costs about $180 bucks, the manual says the sensor is set at the factor and should not be tinkered with. Should I have my local shop replace the sensor for me?

Thanks all!


-----

@Mr Jurassic : idler knob works as intended and doesn't affect the high rev issue
@batcycle636 /@Rj2112: it looks like its the subthrottle sensor
@Scorpi0 : doesn't look like drying helped

-----

Addendum:
1. I think the power wash may have damaged the subthrottle sensor, it's my current guess
2. I found a youtuber whos video shows similar symptoms. It makes the same buzzing sound on ignition key-on, and has high revs. The one difference is my revs don't bounce up and down. They start at ~1200/1300 and creep up to 3/4000 and stay there:
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Last edited by responsible; 01-14-2020 at 05:13 PM.
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post #10 of 12 Old 01-14-2020, 09:35 PM
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The noise before startup definately don't sound good- sounds like the sub throttle plates are cycling fully open then hanging there instead of returning to rest at near closed (visual check costs only time). I'd check shaft for excessive play, also inspect for burrs/knicks that can cause plates to hang. Tps is a potentiaometer, couple ways to check voltage, but generally I believe input wire is 3v signal, output 5v but will vary depending how you're checking (ign on, idle etc.) I've replaced tps..... not impossible, but also very easy to screw one up during installation. Throttle body assemblies go cheap on Ebay and net extra spare parts.... but can also be a risk.
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post #11 of 12 Old 01-15-2020, 07:04 AM
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Well according to the OEM parts diagram on bike bandit there is (2) pieces to the TPS. 21176 is the TPS sub sensor and the 21176A is the TPS main. When you order your parts just be cautious and double check to make sure the correct part is ordered as they aren't exactly the cheapest.
I am in agreement with you. I believe replacement of the TPS should rectify your issue. I did a quick search on ebay as well for TPS sensors but I decided that wasn't a good idea. There is not a quick way of validating the seller is selling a good TPS although I did find them for as cheap as 50 bucks. I will let you make your own judgement call there.
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post #12 of 12 Old 01-16-2020, 04:31 AM
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Usually, people just buy a complete used subthrottle assembly off ebay for about 50 bucks.

Responsible, if you are still having the RPM issues, u can unplug the wire for the subthrottles so they stay in the fully open position. Then run your bike like that to see if the idle problem is still there.
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