2011 brake issues - Page 3 - ZX6R Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 08-21-2019, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Smooth asphalt. That's the chatter though I realized while watching it, is the rapid fork movement on every hard brake, no matter how smooth the road is.
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post #32 of 56 Old 08-21-2019, 01:02 PM
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Smooth asphalt. That's the chatter though I realized while watching it, is the rapid fork movement on every hard brake, no matter how smooth the road is.
Very strange indeed...
Fork maintenance / steering head bearings / wheel bearings? You’ve got a definite mystery going on!
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post #33 of 56 Old 08-22-2019, 02:11 PM
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You have aluminum carriers with semi-floating rotors correct? Semi-floating movement is not checked by face runout. Chances are you've got a couple of bobbins bugered up from dirt and a good stoppie..... they can be cleaned and freed up,the vibration may smooth out some but will most likely still be present as that'll do a number on the weakest point- an aluminum carrier. (Had this problem..... you noticed fork vibrations? That'll also do a number on steering bearings).
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post #34 of 56 Old 08-22-2019, 05:43 PM
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Can you explain what you are feeling under braking a little more in detail?

Does the bars shake side to side, is it more up and down, does it just vibrate?

Honestly, if you are gonna do track days, just go ahead and get some better brake pads, I love my HH sintered (even though not street legal, though I use them on street). That will take the pad guesswork out of the equation. Also, you could go ahead and throw in some DOT4 brake fluid and flush your system. Both of these are good to do before you start going fast at track days anyway and are relatively cheap.

Besides that, the only other thing I can think of is your rim might be bent a bit and you don't notice it until most of your and your bike's weight is on the front wheel. I can't imagine this being a suspension problem, but you could always message Dave Moss from Dave Moss Tuning and throw it by him. He wouldn't charge ya for a Facebook answer I don't think.

Post a picture of your front tire. That would tell us if you have front rebound at some crazy amount or even if your compression is way off. Also, throw a zip tie on your front fork and go do a 60-0 HARD brake and see if you are bottoming out your forks.

- Donnie
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post #35 of 56 Old 08-24-2019, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for taking so long guys. I was getting frustrated so I took a couple of days off. I'm going to start messing with it again today.

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Originally Posted by batcycle636 View Post
You have aluminum carriers with semi-floating rotors correct? Semi-floating movement is not checked by face runout. Chances are you've got a couple of bobbins bugered up from dirt and a good stoppie..... they can be cleaned and freed up,the vibration may smooth out some but will most likely still be present as that'll do a number on the weakest point- an aluminum carrier. (Had this problem..... you noticed fork vibrations? That'll also do a number on steering bearings).
Can I clean these by removing rotors from wheels and cleaning the bobbins with a pressure washer?

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Can you explain what you are feeling under braking a little more in detail?

Does the bars shake side to side, is it more up and down, does it just vibrate?

Honestly, if you are gonna do track days, just go ahead and get some better brake pads, I love my HH sintered (even though not street legal, though I use them on street). That will take the pad guesswork out of the equation. Also, you could go ahead and throw in some DOT4 brake fluid and flush your system. Both of these are good to do before you start going fast at track days anyway and are relatively cheap.

Besides that, the only other thing I can think of is your rim might be bent a bit and you don't notice it until most of your and your bike's weight is on the front wheel. I can't imagine this being a suspension problem, but you could always message Dave Moss from Dave Moss Tuning and throw it by him. He wouldn't charge ya for a Facebook answer I don't think.

Post a picture of your front tire. That would tell us if you have front rebound at some crazy amount or even if your compression is way off. Also, throw a zip tie on your front fork and go do a 60-0 HARD brake and see if you are bottoming out your forks.

- Donnie
When I grab front brake, the chatter feels up and down. Looking at the lower forks, you can also see rapid fork travel in and out. I guess I feel it in the handles but can see the forks reacting aggressively.

I will put zip ties on later and see what that looks like. And look into brake pads and fluid. Would you go with ebc hh or vesrah rjl's? Also what brand of fluids are good to switch over to? I want to start using 1 brand for all of my fluids once I start track days.
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post #36 of 56 Old 08-24-2019, 08:12 AM
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Sorry for taking so long guys. I was getting frustrated so I took a couple of days off. I'm going to start messing with it again today.


Can I clean these by removing rotors from wheels and cleaning the bobbins with a pressure washer?



When I grab front brake, the chatter feels up and down. Looking at the lower forks, you can also see rapid fork travel in and out. I guess I feel it in the handles but can see the forks reacting aggressively.

I will put zip ties on later and see what that looks like. And look into brake pads and fluid. Would you go with ebc hh or vesrah rjl's? Also what brand of fluids are good to switch over to? I want to start using 1 brand for all of my fluids once I start track days.
I like Vesrah, and Motul RBF 600.
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post #37 of 56 Old 08-24-2019, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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I like Vesrah, and Motul RBF 600.
That's what I've been looking at on the pads. I'm going to go ahead and get on that and the Motul brake fluid as well. I've got 1 more gallon of Kawasaki oil I'll use on a change and then may switch to Motul there as well.

I'm also going to try pressure washing the rotors and freeing them up. They had no slack at all when I removed them last time. I didn't realize at the time they were supposed to as I'm newer to some of this stuff. Also going to add zip ties to see travel of forks. Thanks for all of the help so far. I'm hoping to get it figured out without having to take it to a shop.
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post #38 of 56 Old 08-24-2019, 10:51 AM
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I personally would avoid the pressure washer......

The buttons between the hub and rotor provide an expansion joint to allow the rotors to expand when they get hot from braking. Iron rotor, aluminum hub, and whatever other metal the buttons are..... All with thin gaps between them, that trap moisture. Forcing more water in there is a bad idea, IMHO.

A near certainty that they will eventually corrode together and eventually bind up. If they cannot allow equal motion out, then back in when the rotor cools, that's what causes warped rotors.


Breaking the buttons free by rotating them has been described here in the past; doesn't take a lot of time, money, or specialized tools. You just need a bit and bolt that barely fit through the hole in the button so you can clamp onto just that button, and brake cleaner. Tighten enough, so that when you twist the bolt, the button follows. Soak the gaps around the button with the cleaner, to flush out whatever crud is in there. Work them one at a time, you'll know when they behave the same.

"Basic stuff fellas. Use your head for something other than to break your next fall."
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post #39 of 56 Old 08-25-2019, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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I got all of the bobbins turning, most if not all were seized. I also put on the zip ties and did a 60-0 hard stop. I'll post pic. Still has the chatter. It's almost actually under mid brake. Hard it doesnt do it as bad as 65% or so of pressure. I'll also post pick of front tire, although with less than 100 miles, prob won't give much insight. I'm stumped. Going to try pads, brake fluid, brake lines, and steering bearings first before I get someone to tear into forks.

Also, looking at brake lines, do you prefer 2line vs. 3 line in the front or vice versa, or is it more which one you like looks of more or is cheaper kind of thing?
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Last edited by Twistychaser; 08-25-2019 at 02:08 PM.
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post #40 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 01:44 AM
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If you need to find any more torque values, I listed the torque specs from the manual on my site here:

Torque Specs | 2009 Kawasaki ZX-6R


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistychaser View Post
Yea I went ahead and pulled the wheel. I completely removed the rotors from the wheels and gave them a thorough cleaning. They are torqued back to 20 ft/lb per a torque value sheet I found for most bolts on the bike. I just got everything back together with everything still finger tight. So I will do the axle now, then the calipers. Thanks so much for your guidance. I will let you know in a bit if the chatter is gone.

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post #41 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 01:58 AM
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These are the brake pads I use on mine:

EBC HH Front Brake Pads (Requires 2 Sets):
https://amzn.to/2zjnubs

Here is the brake fluid I use:

RBF 600 RACNG BRAKE FLUID 500 ML:
https://amzn.to/2ZsLp2X

I have used these on the street and on the track and have been satisfied with them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistychaser View Post
Sorry for taking so long guys. I was getting frustrated so I took a couple of days off. I'm going to start messing with it again today.

Can I clean these by removing rotors from wheels and cleaning the bobbins with a pressure washer?

When I grab front brake, the chatter feels up and down. Looking at the lower forks, you can also see rapid fork travel in and out. I guess I feel it in the handles but can see the forks reacting aggressively.

I will put zip ties on later and see what that looks like. And look into brake pads and fluid. Would you go with ebc hh or vesrah rjl's? Also what brand of fluids are good to switch over to? I want to start using 1 brand for all of my fluids once I start track days.

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M4 GP Slip-on | ASV C5 Levers | Spiegler SS Brake Lines | SpeedoHealer V4
Custom FE | K&N Air Filter | Vortex Sprockets -1/+2 | EK MVXZ Chain
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post #42 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 02:17 AM
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I've been using this two line set from Spiegler for some time now and have been very happy with them (this set also includes the rear brake line):

https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake...kit-19557.html


Another good brand is CoreMoto:

https://www.coremoto.com/category_s/1752.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twistychaser View Post
I got all of the bobbins turning, most if not all were seized. I also put on the zip ties and did a 60-0 hard stop. I'll post pic. Still has the chatter. It's almost actually under mid brake. Hard it doesnt do it as bad as 65% or so of pressure. I'll also post pick of front tire, although with less than 100 miles, prob won't give much insight. I'm stumped. Going to try pads, brake fluid, brake lines, and steering bearings first before I get someone to tear into forks.

Also, looking at brake lines, do you prefer 2line vs. 3 line in the front or vice versa, or is it more which one you like looks of more or is cheaper kind of thing?

Winner - 6OTM - March 2014
2009 ZX-6R (65,695 miles and counting) | www.ZX6R.us | www.Seaton007.com

M4 GP Slip-on | ASV C5 Levers | Spiegler SS Brake Lines | SpeedoHealer V4
Custom FE | K&N Air Filter | Vortex Sprockets -1/+2 | EK MVXZ Chain

Last edited by Strider; 08-26-2019 at 02:21 AM.
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post #43 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 08:08 AM
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When was the fork serviced last?

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post #44 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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When was the fork serviced last?
I have no idea if forks have ever been serviced. I just bought the bike in June. It's been awhile since I've rode, and was younger when I rode before and didn't service near as much by myself back then. So this troubleshooting is kind of new to me.

I ordered some braided brake lines, Motul 600 brake fluid, Vesrah RJL pads, and some steering bearings, as these were the cheapest place to start, and all combined, still cheaper than rotors.

Next I will try rotors, then maybe K-tech springs in the forks, with a spring rate correct for my weight, and some fresh fluid and seals. I can hardly get any sag in the front, making me think the springs are too stiff to begin with. I'm starting to think the problem is in the forks, but these are all brake parts I wanted to upgrade for track days anyway.
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post #45 of 56 Old 08-26-2019, 03:56 PM
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I know your forks are overdue for service, but have you ever tried using the compression and rebound damping adjusters at the top of your BPF forks? Are both forks set the same? Have you ever made adjustments to the settings?

Double check the preload on both forks too; it needs to be the same.

Last edited by Duc995; 08-26-2019 at 04:37 PM.
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