Radiator cooling additives - ZX6R Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-10-2019, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Radiator cooling additives

Just switched from Engine Ice to water as a coolant. I hated that spilling a small amount on my garage floor would make the area very slippery, so I can only imagine how bad it would be to spill it at the track.

I've used Water Wetter in the past but noticed some residue in the system shortly after, so I'm now trying Hy-per Cool to see if there's any improvement. I found it interesting that they strongly discourage use of distilled water when a lot of people are using water wetter with distilled water. Purple Ice also instructs to use soft water instead of distilled. The article states: "the problem is that when water is distilled, or “stripped,” of its minerals and impurities, the resulting solution is composed of chemically imbalanced “ions.” This leaves distilled water “ionically hungry,” so it will actually strip electrons from the metals in a cooling system as it attempts to chemically re-balance itself. As it chemically removes electrons from the metals of cooling system components, distilled water eventually does extreme damage that could lead to cooling system failure".


Anyone had any issues running water wetter or other non-glycol additives? My guess it would help to flush it at least once a year.

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post #2 of 9 Old 07-10-2019, 10:01 AM
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Water all by itself does a wonderful job of carrying away heat in a closed system. The only downfall is the freezing point.

I am not aware of any issues with any form of antifreeze; I have heard of the 'do not use distilled water' statement before. I don't, so I haven't had any issues imaginary or not. It's a reasonable statement that deionized water will strip ions from anything nearby to reach equilibrium. Aluminum is a donor metal, similar to the zinc plates they add to boats to limit corrosion -- the zinc is more easily corroded, so it is the sacrificial element.

Battery electrolyte is a very dilute form of sulphuric acid, which aides in the transferrence of electrons between the plates when the battery charges and discharges. 'Sulphation' occurs when the battery is overcharged, and breaks down the water in the electrolyte, concentrating the sulphuric acid in the remaining water. Once the sulphur has to bond staight to the plates, that area will not accept a charge, ever again. that's the majority of why batteries lose capacity over time. The impurities in the electrolyte bond to the plates and block charges from being stored.
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post #3 of 9 Old 07-10-2019, 02:30 PM
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Damn RJ....how are u so knowledgeable about everything!?!?
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-10-2019, 02:52 PM
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Not sure I buy the whole "distilled water bad" thing.

"All water will leach ions from a coolant system that contains an anode metal and cathode. Contaminated water will actually do this sooner than pure water, because pure water needs time to erode and gather ions to lose it's resistive properties against electricity. Yes, if you had pure water, it would not conduct electricity. This property immediately falls off as the water becomes contiminated, this newfound conductivity of ions allows it to corrode your coolant system. Water wetter is not an antifreeze but it does alter the characteristics of water such that it's ionization is greately decreased, allowing for lower surface tension (it's better cooling properties) and a significantly higher electrical resistance. On the order of multiple megaohms. Antifreeze has the same deionizing effect."


All I know is that people with engines that cost more than my house use distilled water + water wetter all the time. If there were a possibility of damage from using these to such valuable equipment, they wouldn't use it or would use something else.


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post #5 of 9 Old 07-10-2019, 03:25 PM
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Damn RJ....how are u so knowledgeable about everything!?!?
I'm a curious individual, and I have a strong desire to ensure I understand the threats around me. Being left handed, and dyslexic, the world is fundamentally a hostile work environment for me. The more I know, the less things tend to bite me. If I understand cause and effect, I can predict results . I had an above average fundamental education and was never told I couldn't learn anything I set my mind to. I have learned to trust my learning process, and accept that there are many things I am not good at......... but I can get better, with practice.

Rinse, wash, repeat for 57 years.

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post #6 of 9 Old 07-18-2019, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Just went to go burp the bike

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post #7 of 9 Old 07-18-2019, 08:13 PM
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Water all by itself does a wonderful job of carrying away heat in a closed system.
Antifreeze does an even better job because you can run it hotter for higher efficiency. It not freezing in winter is a big plus for those of us that live where real winter happens, but it sure is deadly slippery on the road or track in the event of a spill.


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I have heard of the 'do not use distilled water' statement before. I don't, so I haven't had any issues imaginary or not. It's a reasonable statement that deionized water will strip ions from anything nearby to reach equilibrium.
Deionized is not the same as distilled. I have several jugs of antifreeze concentrate in my garage and they all say to mix with soft or deionized water.


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post #8 of 9 Old 07-19-2019, 02:05 AM
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Antifreeze does an even better job because you can run it hotter for higher efficiency. It not freezing in winter is a big plus for those of us that live where real winter happens, but it sure is deadly slippery on the road or track in the event of a spill.




Deionized is not the same as distilled. I have several jugs of antifreeze concentrate in my garage and they all say to mix with soft or deionized water.


Mark
I always use premixed aluminum safe, silicate free coolant when I service the bike. The best way to assure optimum performance and longevity for my street only bike. I agree; day to day this provides the lowest potential for me to forget to swap it back before a freezing event. As I typically manage to ride every month of every year and span 100+F to ~26F, I have more important considerations when the opportunity arises.

Agreed.... Distilled isn't as electrically active as de-ionized. Distilled is at whatever mix of positively and negatively charged potentials there are in the molecules of impurities that remain. De-ionizing takes it another step and reduces that variation by the same process that water softener systems employ.

When water containing minerals in suspension passes over the resin beads in the softener tank, which are uniformly at the same electric potential, the minerals carried in solution will bond to the resin and be removed from the water. Those minerals inevitably cause the water to be either acidic (negative charge) or alkylid (positive change).. The beads cause the remaining water to be closer to a net zero charge, hence ' de-ionized '. Ph very nearly neutral.

Reducing the number of charge carriers in the water simply increases the ability of that de-ionized water to accept charged particles in the future. More of a blank slate, so to speak. That ability to readily accept greater than typical amounts of charge make it easier to break weak electrochemical bonds and lift particles off of the surfaces in contact with the water.

I've seen that demonstrated decades ago during a corrosion treatment class. Ball point pen ink scribbled onto a vinyl desktop... Sprayed with normal household cleaners, that stuff is permanent. Mix the soap concentrate into de-ionized water, and that stuff jumps off the surface. Freaking amazing.

Interestingly enough, the less ions in the water, the less conductive it becomes. Absolutely pure water is a great insulator from electrical current. Chemically neutral, no ions at all. H2O is a perfectly neutral molecule. Battery electrolyte is acidic to provide extra negative charge carriers.... Negative ions......

Nuclear reactors use the absolutely purest water imaginable, and are routinely pressurized to 500 psi for greater efficiency in heat transfer. Forcing more contact by that higher pressure transfers more energy for any given surface area.

A more dense transfer fluid would be more efficient, and has been tried in the past. Sodium has been used once or twice as the fluid within a fission reactor. The risks were greater than the benefit.
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post #9 of 9 Old 07-19-2019, 08:19 AM
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I have been useing distilled water in bikes/cars/trucks (street and track) either mixed with coolant (street) or by itself (pure distilled) or an ounce or two of Maxima Kool-Aid mixed in (last 5-7 years) with distilled water for what.......... 40+ years now and have never had any issue with the distilled water eating away a cooling system etc......... I still have several of the racebikes from the 80's and 90's with 50,000+ race miles on them that have always been distilled only and then all these current bikes some with decades on them and none of them show any issues from distilled and even my personal bike with what 96,000+ miles and 13 years old now, never an issue
-- every system also get a spray of soapy water---those microbubbles from the soap actually help aid in cooling ( I have had bikes on the dyno with and without and seen 5-8* differences before and after......... and those results translated on the track as well........ plus- lubricity)

I have tried some other variants of additives and seen the pink film on everything

and the bikes with only distilled still get rust from anything steel in the system (not as often today as when all the liners were steel) and all those bikes get drained and a weak coolant mix between rounds if more than a couple weeks and have coolant in them all winter unless fully disassembled

these FZ07's return after each round and always have rust in just the 4-5 days they are pure distilled....... fucking yamalaughables, don't get that with the zx6r's or the gsxr's.....
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