Advice? 07 ZX-6R Not Starting - Page 2 - ZX6R Forum
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post #16 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Advice? 07 ZX-6R Not Starting

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Originally Posted by Indy View Post
BUT you said the valves are not rotating.

Expect your cam chain won't be moving. Wondering is the chain is even there and not sitting in the sump.

Maybe i misspoke earlier...
Were you asking about the butterfly valves spinning inside throttle body?
Or
The valve rotation inside cylinder head?

I have no idea if the engine valves are rotating. I'll look and report. i thought they just went up and down

Its probably not visible here; but the camshaft chain definitely spins...(start @12 sec)
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post #17 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 10:05 AM
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The chain turns the cam shafts. The cam shafts push the valves into the cylinders..... the springs under the head of the valves push them back out when the cam lobe moves past. All of that is critically timed...... The clearance between the top of the cylinder and the top of the piston at Top Dead Center (TDC) is extremely small. About 1/13th of the distance the piston travels. There might be a couple of mm clearance. The grounding electrode on the spark plug very nearly touches the piston, every time the piston comes to TDC.

If a valve is still below that point, it will be hit by the piston.

If you can see the chain moving, and the cam shafts rotate..... the valves HAVE to move. They will move, according to the profile of the cam lobes. If the chain has moved from the proper position with respect to the gears on the crankshaft and the cams, the cam timing will be wrong. that can cause that impact we keep talking about.

Checking cam timing is not horribly difficult -- the first trick is to align the motor on TDC for #1 cylinder. That's the A hole, and the marks in there. One is for cylinders 1 & 4, the other is for cylinders 2 &3. Whenever that notch on the shaft aligns with one of those two tick marks on the housing, one pair of pistons will be at TDC. Of that pair, one is at the TDC for the compression stroke, the other is at TDC for the exhaust stroke.

Aligning everything to look at the cam timing of #1 cylinder means you need to have #1 at TDC on the compression stroke. The cams should not be pushing the valves in, at that point. The lobes SHOULD be pointed away from the buckets on top of the valves.

This will only be true on #1 cylinder. 2,3,&4 will be in various other states.

I do think there is something fundamentally wrong with your motor..... if you had it serviced a few weeks ago, and they set the valves -- this should not be happening. I would contact the shop and ask them to review their work.
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post #18 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Advice? 07 ZX-6R Not Starting

Kudos for the education @RJ2112 I'll get on that valve check after lunch.

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if you had it serviced a few weeks ago, and they set the valves -- this should not be happening. I would contact the shop and ask them to review their work.
Months not weeks

My fault for skimping on them test miles before their warranty expired.
Since, i've put 1k on the clock. All city miles except last week's romp. -Which got me here, fubar

lesson learned
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post #19 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 11:15 AM
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Would still be talking with them.. IF they are decent then they should help you out.
At least tell you WTF is wrong.

Call them before going further. If they tell you to F off then pull the valve cover and start digging.

But like RJ said, you have something wrong, BAD wrong. Those compression numbers don't make sense. One cylinder off that is torched. All being low, wow.
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post #20 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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But like RJ said, you have something wrong, BAD wrong. Those compression numbers don't make sense. One cylinder off that is torched. All being low, wow.

Fingers crossed, its somehow just the threaded fitting!

I couldn't stomach learning the worst from a shop tech two weeks later. So i'm digging into this right away
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post #21 of 35 Old 05-26-2018, 12:15 PM
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Now you have me scared to take my bike to have valves done by a stranger. I've always wrenched my race car engines no problem but something about a bike engine scares me for some reason like I can't do it or I'll possibly screw it up. Is it like setting valve lash on a solid roller or hyd roller setup? I'd adjust the lash between races at the track I'd gotten so good at it.
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post #22 of 35 Old 05-27-2018, 03:25 AM
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Now you have me scared to take my bike to have valves done by a stranger. I've always wrenched my race car engines no problem but something about a bike engine scares me for some reason like I can't do it or I'll possibly screw it up. Is it like setting valve lash on a solid roller or hyd roller setup? I'd adjust the lash between races at the track I'd gotten so good at it.
Shim under bucket is a direct action between the cam, and the head of the valve. The valve lash is set with the shim, under the bucket.

lobe>bucket>shim>head of valve

Clearances are checked the same way as any other valve train -- a feeler gauge has to check the clearance between the bucket and the cam, when the cam is not acting on the bucket.

Changing the clearance, is done by removing the cams, taking the bucket off the head of the valve, and changing the shim to one of a different thickness. If you need more gap, the shim has to be replaced with a thinner one. You can't check to make sure the adjustment is correct, until you have the cams re-installed and torqued down correctly. Writing down what the gap was to start with, measuring the shim that was in the bucket to start with, then finding a shim that is the proper amount thinner to install is all slightly fiddly and requires a LOT of attention to detail.

The process goes quicker, the more times you do it...... getting to the point where you are comfortable getting inside the valve cover already is a fairly good sign. Not too much more to learn, there.

It really comes down to whether you have already dropped a valve. Nothing but greater damage to the motor will occur if it is run any more without fixing this.
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post #23 of 35 Old 05-27-2018, 04:53 AM
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Having them checked or getting them done is two different things. One isn't that hard, the other takes a little skill and patience.

First step is to checking them. Until there out of spec your good.

Once you do find someone who has a very good rep be prepared to pay. It takes time and unless they have a good stock of shims in hand you will need to order some.
Finding out what the EXTRA price is to have them show you how to do them might take some talking. What ever that price is, will be well worth it. Might not be $$ could be a good bottle of Scotch.
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post #24 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Advice? 07 ZX-6R Not Starting

I got her running again! Thanks for the help @RJ2112 & @Indy !!!



Not sure what actually did it....but here's the complete rundown:

-Poured a little oil into each cylinder & redid compression test

-Replaced spark plugs


-Replaced fuses for ECU & Fuel Pump


-Cleaned fuel pump, fuel filter & gas tank



-Added Seafoam with fresh gas


-Performed fuel pressure test

-Oil Change with Seafoam added

-Sprayed Starting Fluid into the throttle bodies


-Turned the idle speed up and started with full throttle cranked

...Finally it started!

Starter did spin for a little while before cranking -but once it got its compression going, it fired up fast and loud

Last edited by alexhope; 05-29-2018 at 02:54 PM.
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post #25 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 02:19 PM
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The plugs look like they're wet, or is that just the lighting? They look like it was running very rich or burning oil. How does it run now that you got it started?
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post #26 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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The plugs look like they're wet, or is that just the lighting? They look like it was running very rich or burning oil. How does it run now that you got it started?

They're dry. But they were carbon fouled. I cleaned them up a little before that pic

And yea. Definitely possible it's burning oil. That would account for all those times i need to add a 1/4 qt

As for how it runs: Loud and smoky!!!

I'm keeping it on the stands until this Tropical Storm passes. But it appears to be running better than normal!

Last edited by alexhope; 05-29-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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post #27 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 02:46 PM
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WTF...is that paint chips in the pump or is that your snack and you droped some while taking the picture?
Does it start and stay running w/o starting fluid now?
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post #28 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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WTF...is that paint chips in the pump or is that your snack and you droped some while taking the picture?
Bro I couldn't believe it either!

They're paint chips! And not so tasty either. Unless u like that sour diesel flavor



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Does it start and stay running w/o starting fluid now?
Yep! its incredible
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Wow! I can't believe that much paint was in the tank. At least it runs on it's own. Let us know how it runs once you're able to take it and ride it.
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post #30 of 35 Old 05-29-2018, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Wow! I can't believe that much paint was in the tank.

Right. I knew when i bought it was a shitty paint job but damn...


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Let us know how it runs once you're able to take it and ride it.

Will do!
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