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My '96 Rebuild

19K views 223 replies 11 participants last post by  Brandon35 
#1 · (Edited)
'96 Rebuild

Hey guys, been a while. So, after a long time coming, I was finally able to start my rebuild. She’s come a long way since the start but I figured while I wait for more parts (and money) I’d post about it.

Quick history - bought the bike 6 years ago, found out it had a LOT of issues, started to fix a few things here and there, turns out I was really good with zip ties. Bike was in at least one bad front end accident (no steering stop, small crack in frame). She had the scars to prove it. So much so that I’ve never considered taking her to a shop to get looked at because I would have been pretty embarrassed. Anyways, this last couple of weeks I had some free time (yay Thanksgiving) and set about a teardown. I’ve had second gear issues for a while now.

So, I start to break down the bike. Crappy fairings off, took the airbox and carb off (everything was filthy and the throttle springs were covered in filth). Then I freed up all the electricals and took the whole harness out. Had to make some cuts and I’ll connect those back up for the tail/blinkers later. Then came the engine. I had no lift, so I paid $1 at Lowes to take 3 pieces of old wood from a trash can and made an engine holder out of it. It’s actually held up quite nicely. Once I had the engine out, I stripped the frame all the way down and cleaned EVERYTHING. She had 22 years of road grime in all her nooks and crannies. I used Nylon brushes and my favorite degreaser (La’s Awesome Degreaser is really awesome) to do it right. I’ll list off the fixes/upgrades I’ve done so far and leave pictures for those of you who can’t read ?

-Re-wrapped seats

-Cleaned Engine


-Rewrapped wire harness
-New fork oil, caps and seals (pretty sure it had original oil and boy, it was solid)
-New (to me) left fork
-Had the frame crack welded and I grinded it
-Had the steering stop re-welded on
-Polished yoke

-Painted the entire frame satin black


-Painted my rims white


-Cleaned out all my brake calipers
-New brake pads (new rear seal kit coming)


-Stainless steel lines front and rear (used off a working race bike - haters gonna hate)


-All new engine cover Cometic gaskets
-New (to me) drive shaft/gears and clutch shaft forks (I split the case)

-Driven racing engine block-off plates





What’s to come -
-2006 zx6r throttle tube assembly/cables
-Slim kill/start switch
-Steel extension plates for my zzr600 fairing stay (bird cage delete) so handle bars don’t hit
-New tires (I’m thinking Dunlop Q3+ ?)
-Safety wiring
-Race fairings down the road (belly pan w/oil catch) ~ when money allows :nerd
-Airbox/tubing upgrade ~ when money allows
 
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#120 ·
Troubleshooting is quite often a process of elimination..... With mechanical systems, the wild card is the quality of workmanship of the mechanic. You're past that point, now. As it stands I would expect you are chasing wear, in an area you hadn't been already.

Good luck, to misquote Arthur Conan Doyle..... When all else has been eliminated, whatever remains - however improbable, MUST be the truth.
 
#121 ·
Soooo, the problem is "marginally" better. But basically the same symptoms continue. I'm at a loss - it's only second gear and if it were truly popping out and back in, the shift fork would HAVE to be bent - but the old ones are not. I know it has to be something with the output shaft gears since the gears on the input shaft do not mesh dogs in second gear, but I cant imagine what the issue could be. I know it has to be the transmission because the one I swapped in a while back (before it lost a tooth) did not exhibit this problem whatsoever. Everything was quadruple checked with the manual before installing, so I'm confident it was not a fault of mine. Could it be that the dogs were worn short and are making a very poor connection in second, or could this be an output shaft tolerance/position issue?
 
#122 ·
I'd think that Lloyd has already stated that the shimming of the gear stack is a critical element to aligning the gear sets..... I'm sure he'll see this and comment. I was concerned that the engine case might have too much wear at the support/bearing end.
 
#123 ·
But that's the thing, I measured everything I could that had tangible values in the manual and everything seemed fine. the few concerns I had from shaft end tolerances seemed to work out fine. Not sure if I kept the shafts from that other transmission, I purged a lot of old stuff when we moved but maybe if I take it apart again some time I can investigate further.
 
#124 ·
It's getting to the point where now that if I have to take it apart again, I'm likely going to turn this into a long-term tear down and get intimate with some transmission experts. Rivers did mention shimming the stack so maybe there's a chance of getting this sorted out with time. The weird thing to me is the last time I pulled this transmission, there was no wear on the output shaft engagement dogs - how is that possible if they continue to bump in and out of position? Secondly, if anyone can recommend a tool that can take the bearings off without damaging them, I really don't want to have to buy another new set (so I can save for plastics finally).
 
#125 · (Edited)
Engine apart again, i have another trans that I'm using as quality control for alignment purposes. In both cases, the fork for secind gear moves the same amount. In the two rides I've had since changing the forks and drum, I now have some good gouging on the "u" portion of the fork (not on the ears though). Any ideas anyone?
 
#126 ·
I decided to utilize the gears, washers and such from the ebay bought trans (good condition) with my bike's output shaft. Reason behind using my bike's shaft is due to having a brand new bearing installed on it. When looking at the two shafts, they were identical in length but yet my gears wear pushed to the side by a few mm. I'm hoping that swapping these other gears and washers will alleviate the problem, seeing as I have yet to find any information regarding stack height of the oem trans.

On an unrelated note, I have what I believe to be an 03/04 shock or aftermarket shock of some kind that looks like it will fit, is nearly identical in length and looks good besides the possibility of having to cut up my battery box a bit. I'm going to look into servicing it mostly myself after some test fitment. I'm pretty sure my shock is completely shot and I don't really want to keep the stock external nitrogen canister.
 
#127 ·
So if you look at the pictures............

Blow up view on page 8-3, can you follow along with the order of assembly?

Page 8-5.............. pull out a micrometer and actually m4easure those values with yours!

and when you say you have shift forks with marks worn in them down in the valley- that means the teeth of the gear is actually hitting it............look at it when fully assembled and you can see that is the only way (usually means the groove in the gear is worn excessively wide so the shift fork can twist, but........ can mean the clearance between the fork and the shift rod is large or the rod is bent or the drum groove has an issue/or the tooth on the back of the shift fork that goes in the drum groove)

if you look at page 8-18

you will notice the breakdown of the shims.......... they simply list a "thin" and a "thick"... and #7 and 11 toothed washers wear too- and sometimes/often you can buy thick and thin ones..........
SO when assembling you need to pay close attention to how you set this up, often you may well use all thick ones to get the clearances you want/need for best operation........... pull out your feeler gauges and measure how much side play each has when fully assembled........... ideally, you would get down somewhere in the .001"-.0015" maximum range, but I have set up some transmissions down to .0005" between the gear and washers and they work flawlessly (you will know by feel on the bench when it is perfect, even a first time assembler with any mechanical abilities worth the cost of the tools they own will be able to feel what is good and what is not good
even the c-clips wear.......... so new ones will take up some clearance
even the wear on the bushings that some of the gears ride on effects function
and the gears that slide directly on the shafts........ pay special attention to their clearnace and how easily they slide, so that they do not rock or tilt etc

as far as a "total stack height" there is no magic number and there is no standard........... you need to fiddle fuck with it and the shims and the clips- you only care how each gap between the clips works out.....total stack is what it is and is of zero consequence to anything, it can't change by more than a couple thou based on your last shims installed (sans the very last washer that goes on- those are fixed dimension from kaw to keep the whole works from walking, don't get them backwards...)
The final spacer washer on the ends of each shaft are different! I think id and od are the same but one is like 1.5mm thick and the other is like 2.3 or 2.5mm thick.........., some models do offer choices of thickensses to buy

ie................ looking at page 8-18
you would only care what feeler gauge you can get between say shim #11 and that gear......... make that be correct
then move to the next set

I mean sure.......... one can just throw any of the listed parts at it and pound it together and 99/100 it'll work....... but if you want it the best- shimming is the way!!!!!!!!!!


BUT............


But since you have shifting issues with ?popping out of second? you have something more wrong than what shimming is for.......... the precision shimming is for making it perfect after you already have it correct and functioning

So figure out what is incorrect.......... I know the book is relatively generic, I think they do that on purpose so only experienced people can do it that 100%, the book just gets you to the 85% good enough standard.....

look up the fische too, there you can see (often see) thicknesses for some of the shims, washers and clips- I often order multiples of all of them so I can shim properly and sometimes have to make my own to really make things work to the standard I am looking for............



 
#128 · (Edited)
So if you look at the pictures............

Blow up view on page 8-3, can you follow along with the order of assembly?

Page 8-5.............. pull out a micrometer and actually m4easure those values with yours!

and when you say you have shift forks with marks worn in them down in the valley- that means the teeth of the gear is actually hitting it............look at it when fully assembled and you can see that is the only way (usually means the groove in the gear is worn excessively wide so the shift fork can twist, but........ can mean the clearance between the fork and the shift rod is large or the rod is bent or the drum groove has an issue/or the tooth on the back of the shift fork that goes in the drum groove)

if you look at page 8-18

you will notice the breakdown of the shims.......... they simply list a "thin" and a "thick"... and #7 and 11 toothed washers wear too- and sometimes/often you can buy thick and thin ones..........
SO when assembling you need to pay close attention to how you set this up, often you may well use all thick ones to get the clearances you want/need for best operation........... pull out your feeler gauges and measure how much side play each has when fully assembled........... ideally, you would get down somewhere in the .001"-.0015" maximum range, but I have set up some transmissions down to .0005" between the gear and washers and they work flawlessly (you will know by feel on the bench when it is perfect, even a first time assembler with any mechanical abilities worth the cost of the tools they own will be able to feel what is good and what is not good
even the c-clips wear.......... so new ones will take up some clearance
even the wear on the bushings that some of the gears ride on effects function
and the gears that slide directly on the shafts........ pay special attention to their clearnace and how easily they slide, so that they do not rock or tilt etc

as far as a "total stack height" there is no magic number and there is no standard........... you need to fiddle fuck with it and the shims and the clips- you only care how each gap between the clips works out.....total stack is what it is and is of zero consequence to anything, it can't change by more than a couple thou based on your last shims installed (sans the very last washer that goes on- those are fixed dimension from kaw to keep the whole works from walking, don't get them backwards...)
The final spacer washer on the ends of each shaft are different! I think id and od are the same but one is like 1.5mm thick and the other is like 2.3 or 2.5mm thick.........., some models do offer choices of thickensses to buy

ie................ looking at page 8-18
you would only care what feeler gauge you can get between say shim #11 and that gear......... make that be correct
then move to the next set

I mean sure.......... one can just throw any of the listed parts at it and pound it together and 99/100 it'll work....... but if you want it the best- shimming is the way!!!!!!!!!!


BUT............


But since you have shifting issues with ?popping out of second? you have something more wrong than what shimming is for.......... the precision shimming is for making it perfect after you already have it correct and functioning

So figure out what is incorrect.......... I know the book is relatively generic, I think they do that on purpose so only experienced people can do it that 100%, the book just gets you to the 85% good enough standard.....

look up the fische too, there you can see (often see) thicknesses for some of the shims, washers and clips- I often order multiples of all of them so I can shim properly and sometimes have to make my own to really make things work to the standard I am looking for............
Okay, so not going to lie, I literally just finished putting the crankcase back on. That being said, I did double/triple/quadruple check the diagram so I know it's put together correctly. I did measure tolerances and everything I put back together was within the left and right limits. Additionally, I triple checked the fork that was worn and as you said it was clearly by the gear teeth - I saw no noticable rubbing while in neutral nor any difference while engaged. I know the tolerances are right on with the forks and drum, so I'm still dumbfounded at what my issue could be. The fork ears look fine and the fork is not bent - neither are my other two sets of shift forks so that cant be the issue. I will update as soon as I know if it works or not, but if I have to take this mf apart again, I'll go your route with the feeler gauge between washers/gears. Lucky I took this apart again because I found that my sprocket nut must have flung off somehow (maybe I forgot to torque it down?). Really wish I had a little more professional experience because I hate buttoning up an engine to find out there are more ways to check my work. Thank you for the info though.
 
#129 ·
Looks like my valve clearances will be finished soon, just waiting on my gaskets to arrive so I can button the engine back-up and start diagnosing my no-charge problem. Not sure what happened there since the last time it was running, all of a sudden she has zero ability to run off the stator so I have to diagnose.
 
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#130 ·
Top end complete - waiting on a new stator to come in and connectors (had more charging problems and just replaced/rewired my rectifier with no change). The output voltage from the burnt up leads was half the manual minimum so I found a good one from a lower milage bike that I will test, insulate and install with brand new connectors. That way everything electrically speaking will be running normally.
 
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#132 · (Edited)
New stator in, new regulator/rectifier for good measure, new connectors installed, found a completely burnt ground cable that was causing my gauge cluster and headlight to stay on (cleaned, rewired, and sealed), new starter solenoid since I had an extra, etc. below is a cool thing I did with my carbs.

So I had done the kleen air mod (smog blockoff plates) in the past, but kept the vacuum valve attached (not from the smog system, the valve attached to the carb) since I was unsure how that worked. I went for a test ride the other day and she was NOT liking somthing; she was bucking and not seeming to get fuel just right. Turns out, the valve is unnecessary if you have the kleen air mod so I did what is called the "float bowl mod" and directly linked the float bowl vent lines to the airbox. Basically, I eliminated a point of failure with bypassing the vacuum valve (which it turns out was bad anyway) and now she screams down the road like a bat out of hell. That, coupled with a fresh valve adjustment and cleaned up wiring equals mucho power. I'm very happy.

I may look into rejetting the carb soon since the doofus before me dicided that 175/190 main jets were cool, but otherwise she is running BEAUTIFULLY. If she keeps on ticking well, my wife says I can get new plastics :))
 
#133 ·
So I guess little road bumps are normal with how much I have re-wired this bike. My headlight will not turn on now (I have two good replacement bulbs) and it's not my spliced connections that are causing the issue. I have a feeling my headlight relay in the fuze box may have gone bad but I wont be able to dig further till the weekend. In the mean time, anyone have ideas on how to test the relay? I have not taken the time to scour the manual yet.
 
#134 ·
Update. Bought a European zx600f harness in decent condition and completely gutted mine. Used brand new plugs and/or used my harness's plugs to fortify the donor harness, used shrink tubes and then re-wrapped the entire harness. A few cool European model harness features are the city lights plug built in and the secondary dimmer switch that activates the headlight/tail light.

Headlight comes on and stays on, voltages are within limits, all electrical components are working properly.
 
#136 ·
I'm just going to say I have no clue. Bikebandit and other websites who claimed to have an OEM harness all came back saying no. Being that I can't take it to a shop to get looked at, I found the replacement harness on ebay.

That being said, the bike this harness came from was either very well taken care of, or had been given a new harness some time ago. Besides a few minor fixes (wired in the factory fuel pump switch), this harness is in amazing shape compared to mine. Not a single sign of overheating at the regulator, no corrosion or burning at the stator connector, and ALL factory plugs were present and in good condition (besides the one fuel pump plug). I took all the wrapping off and checked each individual wire as I moved down through the harness. All factory splices were good, no brittleness and no exposed wire.

All that to say, idk how old it is - could be factory, could be a newer replacement... hard to tell.
 
#139 ·
You did not buy the proper tool for the rivnuts to install them?

Is that a bunch of epoxy or what all over the top of the frame around them?
 
#142 ·
Was sitting at idle one day and smelled some smokey stuff so I shut the bike off and this is what I found. My guess - poor connection in the plug created a ton of resistance, melted the plastic and it started to cascade. Had the same connector to use but decided to use a six-pin plug instead to create some distance between the connections and isolate any single point of failure. Ran for about 20min from idle to 4k rpm without getting more than warm to the touch. I may go back to the standard three pin plug or just leave it. Who knows.

107619
Finger Automotive tire Fender Motorcycle Nail
107620
 
#143 ·
Is that what is left of the stator plug connector?

if so, those yellow wires look awefully thin, like the wrong guage of wire was used
 
#144 ·
I could not agree more on that - although I'm afraid those wires are actually the stock ones for the harness. I am considering using the thicker gauge and bypassing those smaller ones. I will monitor for now and if heat becomes an issue again it will happen. Resistances were on-par.
 
#145 ·
On a hunch I unclipped the connector to my stator to take a peak and it turn out there was some melting that had already started. So, new game plan. I ordered a Rick's Motorsports stator online and it is enroute. Along with this, I ordered thicker gauge wire along with a crimp tool and will be re-wiring the regulator/rectifier pins; my plan is to have the connection use shorter wire length and moved away from the main harness having the connection in an easy-to-see spot so I can check on it periodically.

Along with this, I am replacing my fuel lines from the tank, have smaller main jets on order (what's in my carb are waaaaaay to big) and that about wraps it up. I'm ready to be done here. I'll update once everything is complete. I'm sure I've bored everyone to death and I'm sure as hell ready to start riding this damn thing.
 
#146 ·
If you are rebuilding the wiring harness between the stator and the R/R, a few pieces of advice:

  1. Shorter is better, and bigger is better -- the finer the strands of wire, the better.
  2. If you can eliminate connections on the path, that's another place that you don't have to worry about corrosion getting in there.
  3. Solder has flux embedded to make it easier for the solder to stick. That flux contains acid to etch the metal you want the solder to stick to. It never stops etching the metal. Crimps are better for that reason. They also allow flexing from vibration to spread over a larger area, so connections don't fail right beside the soldered point.
If you can go straight from the stator to the R/R in one shot of large, fine wire so much the better.
 
#147 ·
If you are rebuilding the wiring harness between the stator and the R/R, a few pieces of advice:

  1. Shorter is better, and bigger is better -- the finer the strands of wire, the better.
  2. If you can eliminate connections on the path, that's another place that you don't have to worry about corrosion getting in there.
  3. Solder has flux embedded to make it easier for the solder to stick. That flux contains acid to etch the metal you want the solder to stick to. It never stops etching the metal. Crimps are better for that reason. They also allow flexing from vibration to spread over a larger area, so connections don't fail right beside the soldered point.
If you can go straight from the stator to the R/R in one shot of large, fine wire so much the better.
I do not believe I will have enough length from the stator, but I will certainly attempt it. I am for sure staying away from solder; if I have to keep a removable connection, it will still be a solid one using the crimp tool.
 
#148 ·
So in the wonderful world of me, I hit another snag. Turns out even with a brand new stator, my voltage output is LOW. I'm only getting 32-35V output at speed again and the stator is good so my next shot at the trouble tree is the flywheel/magneto being shot. I have one inbound now along with a puller tool. If this does not end the issue, my bike is officially cursed.
 
#149 ·
Curses... I took the reg/rec off to test as I was curious and sure enough, it failed the first step of the circuit test. What a pain in my ass, it was a brand-new one from Rick's Motorsports too. I need to do some searching to find my purchase but I will be emailing in regard to the failure. This is likely why my battery gets low to no juice even though the stator is in-fact putting out at least some juice for the system without the new flywheel. Hopefully this find plus a new stator and battery finalizes the chase of the issue.

If not, that cliff is looking more and more enticing.
 
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#150 ·
I've made my living for the past 30-odd years, using objective quality evidence to drive decisions. Almost all of that in troubleshooting electronics issues, although the technique applies to any field of endeavor.

Out of curiosity which test failed? Resistance checks on a stator are fairly simple.... it needs to be as close to a dead short as you can measure through each winding, and as high a resistance as you can get between them (as well as to any point of structure).

The measurements for each within a type should be very nearly the same; I would think the accuracy of the meter you use is likely to be a bigger difference than what you should actually measure.
 
#151 ·
I performed the "Circuit Test" (all it was called) from my manual on the regulator/rectifier I had (it was a Rick's Motorsports one, OEM style). A light bulb along with 12V battery was used for the test and the bulb should not have turned on. When I tested the second yellow wire (AC input) wire, the bulb turned on - meaning the reg/rec was bad. Luckily I did not run my new stator long with this issue. I bought a new reg/rec from Rick's Motorsports and oddly enough the number on the back was different but had the exact same shape/dimensions. I went through the entire circuit test plus the resistance test with no faults. When I attempted to get a refund for the old unit, they could not find my original order in the system (go figure). However upset at this I was, it looks like my new reg/rec has done the trick. I'm getting good voltage at the battery at RPM now and did not yet install my new (to me) magneto. If I have to in the future, I can.

My stator is now plugged straight into the reg/rec along the side of the frame rather than above the crankcase - it is a much shorter wire distance, cooler area and will allow me to periodically check on the connection without needing to take the tank off. I am fairly confident that we are in business now and I'm pretty sure I've earned an electrical degree at this point. I'll throw up a picture of the handy work when I can.
 
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#152 ·
Sounds like you're cooking with gas, now. :) That last melted plug you suffered -- I would hazard a guess that the crimp connection to the pin on the contact latched into the plug body was corroded. Melting is always caused by higher resistance than what the design allows for. The resistance is either caused by too few strands of wire to carry the current, or corrosion of those strands and/or the actual contacts being corroded.

Just as a point of information..... any soldering process uses some form of flux to aid in the wetting of the wire with the solder. There's always some acid in the flux to etch the metal clean to make the connection. That acid continues to etch the metals long after the soldering is done. The buy product is corrosion.
 
#154 ·
The only improvement you could have made was to avoid using a sharp edge to cut away the installation on the wire before you crimped it. Not saying that you nicked any strands, but a sharp break like that tends to concentrate flexing forces increasing the rate at which the ‘crack’ propagates. Glad to hear about the crimp.
 
#155 ·
What kind of tool can do that? I found that I could ensure no strands were cut if I used once size higher and made a pass two/three times in one spot before pulling off the insulation. I was very particular about checking for cut wire strands as I did not want ANY stray resistance due to that.
 
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