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My '96 Rebuild

19K views 223 replies 11 participants last post by  Brandon35 
#1 · (Edited)
'96 Rebuild

Hey guys, been a while. So, after a long time coming, I was finally able to start my rebuild. She’s come a long way since the start but I figured while I wait for more parts (and money) I’d post about it.

Quick history - bought the bike 6 years ago, found out it had a LOT of issues, started to fix a few things here and there, turns out I was really good with zip ties. Bike was in at least one bad front end accident (no steering stop, small crack in frame). She had the scars to prove it. So much so that I’ve never considered taking her to a shop to get looked at because I would have been pretty embarrassed. Anyways, this last couple of weeks I had some free time (yay Thanksgiving) and set about a teardown. I’ve had second gear issues for a while now.

So, I start to break down the bike. Crappy fairings off, took the airbox and carb off (everything was filthy and the throttle springs were covered in filth). Then I freed up all the electricals and took the whole harness out. Had to make some cuts and I’ll connect those back up for the tail/blinkers later. Then came the engine. I had no lift, so I paid $1 at Lowes to take 3 pieces of old wood from a trash can and made an engine holder out of it. It’s actually held up quite nicely. Once I had the engine out, I stripped the frame all the way down and cleaned EVERYTHING. She had 22 years of road grime in all her nooks and crannies. I used Nylon brushes and my favorite degreaser (La’s Awesome Degreaser is really awesome) to do it right. I’ll list off the fixes/upgrades I’ve done so far and leave pictures for those of you who can’t read ?

-Re-wrapped seats

-Cleaned Engine


-Rewrapped wire harness
-New fork oil, caps and seals (pretty sure it had original oil and boy, it was solid)
-New (to me) left fork
-Had the frame crack welded and I grinded it
-Had the steering stop re-welded on
-Polished yoke

-Painted the entire frame satin black


-Painted my rims white


-Cleaned out all my brake calipers
-New brake pads (new rear seal kit coming)


-Stainless steel lines front and rear (used off a working race bike - haters gonna hate)


-All new engine cover Cometic gaskets
-New (to me) drive shaft/gears and clutch shaft forks (I split the case)

-Driven racing engine block-off plates





What’s to come -
-2006 zx6r throttle tube assembly/cables
-Slim kill/start switch
-Steel extension plates for my zzr600 fairing stay (bird cage delete) so handle bars don’t hit
-New tires (I’m thinking Dunlop Q3+ ?)
-Safety wiring
-Race fairings down the road (belly pan w/oil catch) ~ when money allows :nerd
-Airbox/tubing upgrade ~ when money allows
 
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#81 ·
Honestly, I’m so confused and my heart hurts. It’s the last step and I cant get it right? I cant even search the problem because really nothing comes up about it.
 
#83 · (Edited)
You can always try;

drain fluid, remove cover and impeller
brake cleaner on a microfiber over the ceramic seal and also over its mating piece.........

do not touch either with your fingers, regardless how clean you think your hands (or gloves) are.........
reassemble and just for testing only use water (if success, drain and install your coolant of choice)

Are you sure the pump housing itself doesn't have a crack or something............. The seals are damn near foolproof as long as clean!!!!!!! I have never once had one leak in likely 50 installs over the decades..... but CLEAN is a must, like surgical clean!!!!

maybe some of that threebond got on it?????????? 3 hours or less is pretty quick for what you are using it for....... I tend to go minimum 6 hrs on non pressurized areas and 24 hrs if it will have any pressure more than gravity..........
 
#84 ·
You can always try;

drain fluid, remove cover and impeller
brake cleaner on a microfiber over the ceramic seal and also over its mating piece.........

do not touch either with your fingers, regardless how clean you think your hands (or gloves) are.........
reassemble and just for testing only use water (if success, drain and install your coolant of choice)

Are you sure the pump housing itself doesn't have a crack or something............. The seals are damn near foolproof as long as clean!!!!!!! I have never once had one leak in likely 50 installs over the decades..... but CLEAN is a must, like surgical clean!!!!

maybe some of that threebond got on it<img src="http://zx6r.com/images/smilies/rock.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Eh?" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://zx6r.com/images/smilies/rock.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Eh?" class="inlineimg" /><img src="http://zx6r.com/images/smilies/rock.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Eh?" class="inlineimg" />? 3 hours or less is pretty quick for what you are using it for....... I tend to go minimum 6 hrs on non pressurized areas and 24 hrs if it will have any pressure more than gravity..........
This is the exact procedure i did the last time - I believe I've solved it now though.

I scoured the internet for a while, and from what I gathered there needs to be a small amount if liquid applied to the seal prior to mating the turbine to the shaft. This allows a "microfilm" to form and also prevents a dry run or whatever. Basically I didnt do that step so this time I resurfaced each face, cleaned, got them wet and reinstalled. Bike is currently running at idle and i have seen 3 drips within 7-10 minutes and I'm pretty sure that's just residual water from within the weep hole that hadn't escaped prior (does not come down hot). Glad to see it's finally functioning properly
 
#86 ·
So the problem is done with and I'm troubleshooting now.

Clutch is giving me problems but it's to be expected i guess - EBC sent me the wrong clutch kit (correct friction plates but wrong steel plates). I'm using the current setup as I run my oil with an additive and it's causing the clutch to slip BAD. EBC recommends no synthetic oils or additives with this clutch kit but LUCKILY they sent me a complete new (correct) kit because of the mix-up with the year model.

So - run my oil additive for 200ish miles, drain, do a flush or two, then install complete new clutch kit and call her good. I'll be using good old fashioned regular oil from now on.
 
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#89 ·
I really despise claims of 5% improved performance. So low a number is difficult to measure with the traditional 'ass dyno'. Do 10 different mods that each guarantee 5%, you would be very lucky to see more than 7% from where you started. Exhaust + air filter, + fuel management..... 7%? Certainly, nowhere near 115%......

PTFE was the snake oil, in the '70-'80 time frame.

Clean oil, and a fresh tune up had more impact...... And didn't make your clutch slip.
 
#90 ·
I know i know - little point but i figured i'd be doing a few flushes and it wouldn't hurt anything to try it out. I wont be putting additives in again after this. Also I need to find a good non-synth fluid because a lot of what i used to by is semi
 
#93 ·
I will keep an eye open for Rotella. Too early to tell now, especially with a slippy clutch yet and synth blend oil, but it seems the original second gear issue may still be haunting me. It was the reason I broke the engine down the first time.

Time will tell, but honestly I cant put my finger on what it could be. My transmission was in tip-top condition, every bearing is brand new, so i can only hope it's clutch related. No metal on metal sounds, it's (again) as if it's slipping and catching immediately over and over again. Only 2nd though.
 
#95 ·
+1 on the Shell Rotella T6! I've used it for all of the 70,000 miles (except the initial break-in period) on my 2009 ZX-6R.
 
#96 ·
I think once I'm ready for the oil flush I'll go with the conventional Kawasaki 20-50. Little bit heavier weight for Cali but also for sure no energy saving additives and specifically formulated for clutched bikes. I'll change oil a little more often and stick with my Hi-flo filters
 
#97 ·
The additive packages that cause wet clutch slippage are identified on the SAE/API label on the oil container..... If that round symbol has a starburst border, the oil contains the detrimental material for motorcycle wet clutches. Avoid that at all costs. 0w, & 5w all have that starburst.

I have tried running heavier grade oil than the lowest allowed viscosity in the past (15w-XX, or 20w-XX, compared to 10w-XX), and can tell the engine works harder to push the thicker oil where it needs to go. You can hear it, and feel it.

If you just replaced all the bearings, the clearances are minimal throughout your engine...... IMHO, not a good time to introduce high viscosity oil.....
 
#98 ·
Okay good point with the bearings/tolerances. I guess I'll stick with 10w-40 but I've been doing a lot of reading online and I just feel as though sticking to the kawi oil will keep me the safest when I do my new clutch install.

Speaking of which, I saw someone say in a forum that they did a light sanding of their new steal plates before install. Is this necessary?
 
#99 ·
That's a riversZZR question. I would think it unnecessary for typical day to day use; sanding the steel is likely to leave abrasives embedded in the steel, which would mess with the flatness, etc. Whatever the mfg tolerance is from Kawasaki, the plates should be in spec for that from the get go.
 
#100 ·
Yeah hopefully he chimes in. I cant see why a 1000grit would hurt to scuff them quick maybe (I assume maybe there is some residual machining fluid on them?)

Really hoping my 2nd gear issue is worn/warped clutch plates and synth oil with additives. I saw online that the Moly stuff in some oils is irremovable from things it has contacted.
 
#101 ·
Second reason I think it's clutch related is because 2nd gear is pretty torquey compared to other gears so maybe it is more susceptible to some slippage? Idk if that's sound logic but I'm hoping.
 
#102 ·
first has the most torque....... Second has a thinner engagement due to the gap needed for neutral; my guess would be that any odd behavior is related to that, rather than actual slippage. Especially if you only feel it in second.

Clutch slippage generally occurs in the highest gears, where the rear wheel is exerting maximum pressure relative to the engine. Longer gearing results in less mechanical advantage with respect to the crankshaft. When the crank wants to move the output shaft further with each revolution, it takes more torque to do so under equal load.
 
#103 ·
So, the issue could be the dog engagement? I have literally NEVER bumped into neutral from second even on severe cases of my acceleration jolts/slips. I measured tolerances, checked the dogs, etc and have found NOTHING that would cause me to believe it's a tranny problem.
 
#107 ·
Guys,

Finally made it out here to Cali. Planning has never ceased so here's what will be happening soon.

- New reserve fuel tank filter and O-rings (guess what, my tank did not have a filter inside for the reserve! Yay me). This, along with cleaning out the petcock (again) will finally give me use of my reserve again.

- Noticed that my practically brand new brake pads decided to, idk disintegrate on me? I had major scoring on the left rotor so I'm replacing both rotors and all pads.

- Critically stupid move of past me, I put Dot5 fluid in a Dot4 reservoir so I need to flush the system and hope I didn't do damage

- New EBC clutch will get installed after two oil flushes with conventional kawi 10w40.

- New hiflo oil filter

- Engine ice after a few distilled water flushes

- Once everything is done and closed up, I've be finishing up with safety wire all around again.

We'll see what happens after this for my second gear issue, but for now... fuck it lets go ride.
 

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#108 ·
Guys,

Finally made it out here to Cali. Planning has never ceased so here's what will be happening soon.

- New reserve fuel tank filter and O-rings (guess what, my tank did not have a filter inside for the reserve! Yay me). This, along with cleaning out the petcock (again) will finally give me use of my reserve again.

- Noticed that my practically brand new brake pads decided to, idk disintegrate on me? I had major scoring on the left rotor so I'm replacing both rotors and all pads.

- Critically stupid move of past me, I put Dot5 fluid in a Dot4 reservoir so I need to flush the system and hope I didn't do damage

- New EBC clutch will get installed after two oil flushes with conventional kawi 10w40.

- New hiflo oil filter

- Engine ice after a few distilled water flushes

- Once everything is done and closed up, I've be finishing up with safety wire all around again.

We'll see what happens after this for my second gear issue, but for now... fuck it lets go ride.

DOT 5 or DOT 5.1 ? I don't think I've ever even seen DOT 5 (silicon) brake fluid for sale anywhere in my life.
 
#112 ·
So everything has been installed now. New rotors, pads, brake fluid, oil, oil filter, safety wire. Engine Ice will go in whenever I'm ready to care about it. My second gear problem is still just as present as ever but I am tired of chasing that fucking ghost of a problem. Basically, second gear will be skipped as much as possible until I can figure something out. The symptoms defy all logic. Anyways, she's running well and all that's left for her is a reserve filter, fuel filter and new plastics. My new job just became 10,000x more ridiculous so I will be on the bike much less often.
 

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#114 ·
The work load will become more manageable with experience, and that will serve you well throughout your life. Maybe not the exact skill set; but the sure and certain knowledge that you can adapt and overcome adversity greater than you knew.

The bike looks good. When you get back on the level, revisit.
 
#115 ·
So I decided to buy a new shift drum assembly and all new shift forks. I want to at least eliminate any chance that it's a bent fork, or tolerance issue. I know I can install them without pulling the engine so I'm going to give it a good post-college try. I also bought a new headlight bulb and a new three prong harness to splice in (old one is bent to shit).
 
#117 ·
Drum rides on a single ball bearing on one side and metal-metal bearing on the other (not sure what that's called). The forks ride on a rod with no bearings. The new drum assembly I bought included the bearing and a new selector hub
 
#118 ·
Flat metal facing flat metal is called a plain bearing, oil film is the bearing element..... Ball bearings self explanatory, roller bearings extend the surface area compared to a ball bearings' infinitely small point contact. Each have their place in reducing friction.

Pressure fed plain bearings are far and away more precise and durable. So long as there is a supply of oil.
 
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